Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 92

Thread: Phillips gone by mid December?

  1. #46
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    129

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    they don't have to move Phillips to extend either. YOU really don't think Bob and Walt would have offered the deal to Phillips thinking...oh well this means we lose both Latos and Bailey.... They knew what they were doing and the monies are there if both are wanting to do extensions.
    Didn't we hear the EXACT same thing from Cardinals fans when people said signing Holliday meant they couldn't extend Pujols?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by No pants Mcgee View Post
    I have to disagree with you. We have heard that the Reds don't want to trade Homer, and walt wants to try and resign him. Now i don't think that they will, but mostly because i think Homer will want to test FA and not settle for a discount to stay in Cincy.
    If true, that's Walt's first mistake. He should know now whether or not Bailey can be extended. I'm sure he has discussions with Bailey and his agent. If they can't extend him to a LT deal, then losing him next year for a lousy draft pick is the worst possible scenario.

    The Reds have a limited window to win. Why lose Bailey for a draft pick who could be a bust, or take 2-5 years to get to the Majors? That doesn't help the Reds in 2015 or 2016 does it?

    Be proactive-- move Bailey for players that can help in 2014, 2015 and beyond. Don't say, oh well, we tried to resign him-- and lose a valuable asset in Bailey for a draft pick. What kind of leadership and management is that?

    Look @ Tampa Bay-- they moved Shields-- granted he had 2 years on his deal, but they got a player back who helped them win in 2013 and got some more players for the future.

    We will have to agree to disagree, but I think losing a player in Bailey for a draft pick when you know he won't resign is a long term losing decision.

    The Reds can easily move Bailey, improve the team somewhere else, and then go ahead and sign Arroyo to fill his spot in the rotation. Yeah it's a downgrade, but the pieces from a Bailey trade can improve the roster elsewhere.

    Silly to let a good, durable 28 year old FA pitcher leave for just a draft pick when you can get so much more for him now.

  4. Likes:

    JMac84 (12-30-2013)

  5. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    87

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by No pants Mcgee View Post

    Also i do agree that the Reds cannot afford to sign their current rotation past next season. My guess is they choose two of Cueto, Baily, Leake, and Latos and let the other two walk. Outside of the mega markets good teams don't resign all of their good players. Its all about minor league development.

    Sweet, so lose 2 SP's for 2 draft picks? Each SP should net 2-3 decent prospects in return. If you know you are going to lose them, trade them and get full value for them in return. Not partial value via 1 draft pick. Trades, not losing players for 1 draft pick really help improve teams farm systems the most. And the Reds @ the moment have a below average farm system.

    Good teams realize they can't sign their stars and move them for a bunch of prospects to replenish their farm system and stay competitive. See Tampa Bay.

    We will have to agree to disagree, but I think it's a waste if the Reds know they can't resign Bailey and lose him for just a draft pick. There should be much better options for the Reds to take to maximize Bailey's value.

  6. #49
    Torty ac084c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    390

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    He is a better "value" the Cano is. Cano is good, he is NOT worth 10 years and 240 million good, so if I had to pick, yes Phillips is a better value at this point.
    While I don't disagree that Cano's contract is a bad one, given that he's 31 - I challenge you to show me any statistic where Brandon Phillips is more valuable than Robinson Cano based on their production over the last 3 years.

  7. #50
    Torty ac084c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    390

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladeda View Post
    Nope. I would look @ trading for Nick Franklin or Dustin Ackley. In reality- Nick Franklin-- he doesn't have a starting spot since the M's signed Cano.

    The Mariners bullpen is awful awful awful. A deal centered around Chapman and Franklin should do the trick. The M's really need bullpen help. They won 71 games last year, and had 23 blown saves. 7th most in MLB baseball. That's alot of blown saves for a team that didn't have the lead in too many games last year.

    The M's also only had 1 regular relief pitcher with an ERA under 3.5. Heck their 2 closers had ERA's over 4.00. THe M's bullpen is a mess- they need help- a trade is definitely within the realm of possibility.


    That said-- the Reds have no where really to trade BP to so it's a moot point really to find a replacement for BP.
    You're willing to trade away your best relief pitcher by far for a guy with a 96 OPS+ in his rookie year with over 400 PA? Keep in mind, you'd also be replacing your GG second baseman with a -9.6 UZR/150 guy.

    Plus it's not like he can't do anything in Seattle, they'll probably move him over to SS with Ryan gone.

  8. Likes:

    RedlegJake (12-29-2013)

  9. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    90

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladeda View Post
    Sweet, so lose 2 SP's for 2 draft picks? Each SP should net 2-3 decent prospects in return. If you know you are going to lose them, trade them and get full value for them in return. Not partial value via 1 draft pick. Trades, not losing players for 1 draft pick really help improve teams farm systems the most. And the Reds @ the moment have a below average farm system.

    Good teams realize they can't sign their stars and move them for a bunch of prospects to replenish their farm system and stay competitive. See Tampa Bay.

    We will have to agree to disagree, but I think it's a waste if the Reds know they can't resign Bailey and lose him for just a draft pick. There should be much better options for the Reds to take to maximize Bailey's value.
    Depending on who you get in return I cant completely disagree with you. If you could get a Major league ready OF prospect and another lower level prospect or two I wouldn't be against it. That said however I can't imagine the Reds, who have playoff hopes trading Homer Bailey just to get some guys who will spend the year in AA.

  10. #52
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,664

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    While I don't disagree that Cano's contract is a bad one, given that he's 31 - I challenge you to show me any statistic where Brandon Phillips is more valuable than Robinson Cano based on their production over the last 3 years.
    This is just a silly argument. The point is NOT being made that Phillips is in any way better than Cano - it's a matter of value. 24 million for Cano or 11 million for Phillips? Unless you're a really rich franchise Phillips contract leaves you 13 million to ten million a year for another player plus a lot less years on the hook. That is what makes Phillips a better value in some people's eyes. Not that he is a better or more productive player. If you just ignore dollars then of course Cano is better.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  11. #53
    Torty ac084c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    390

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    This is just a silly argument. The point is NOT being made that Phillips is in any way better than Cano - it's a matter of value. 24 million for Cano or 11 million for Phillips? Unless you're a really rich franchise Phillips contract leaves you 13 million to ten million a year for another player plus a lot less years on the hook. That is what makes Phillips a better value in some people's eyes. Not that he is a better or more productive player. If you just ignore dollars then of course Cano is better.
    In 2013 Cano was worth 6 wins - Phillips: 2.6. I challenge you to show me a guy you'll sign for 13MM that will make up the 3.4 win difference.

    For reference - Beltran was a 2 win player in 2013 and got 15MM/year... and he's 37.

  12. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    234

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    In 2013 Cano was worth 6 wins - Phillips: 2.6. I challenge you to show me a guy you'll sign for 13MM that will make up the 3.4 win difference.

    For reference - Beltran was a 2 win player in 2013 and got 15MM/year... and he's 37.
    Cano has many years on his deal? How many does Brandon have? That and along with the money value. As for that 13 million, I bet if you offered Homer say $13-14 million a year over the next 4 years he would take it. So you would get Homer and Phillips for the next 4 years and then still have 6 years of $24 some odd million to spend each year. Again for true value, Phillips is a better value for a franchise then Cano is.

  13. #55
    Torty ac084c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    390

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Cano has many years on his deal? How many does Brandon have? That and along with the money value. As for that 13 million, I bet if you offered Homer say $13-14 million a year over the next 4 years he would take it. So you would get Homer and Phillips for the next 4 years and then still have 6 years of $24 some odd million to spend each year. Again for true value, Phillips is a better value for a franchise then Cano is.
    No chance Bailey would take 13MM AAV

  14. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    234

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    No chance Bailey would take 13MM AAV
    Okay what do you think a .500 pitcher on the open market would make in a 4-5 year deal?

  15. #57
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    190

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Okay what do you think a .500 pitcher on the open market would make in a 4-5 year deal?
    Please dont use W's and L's evaluating a pitcher

  16. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    234

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Please dont use W's and L's evaluating a pitcher
    Sure you do, you also look at other numbers, but again the purpose of the game is to win. So like it or not W/L for a pitcher is a stat used in negoitions of a contract weather you want to admit it or not.

  17. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    190

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Sure you do, you also look at other numbers, but again the purpose of the game is to win. So like it or not W/L for a pitcher is a stat used in negoitions of a contract weather you want to admit it or not.
    Obviously it isnt for GMs who understand the game. The Reds made a pretty big splash traading for a 9-14 pitcher in 2011

  18. #60
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    234

    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Obviously it isnt for GMs who understand the game. The Reds made a pretty big splash traading for a 9-14 pitcher in 2011
    Again not sole stat you look at but it does matter. To discount it like you discount RBI's to me is laughable.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25