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Thread: Phillips gone by mid December?

  1. #61
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Again not sole stat you look at but it does matter. To discount it like you discount RBI's to me is laughable.
    So you think Jon Lester should get more money than say, um, Clayton Kershaw. Because he has a better win % and its all about winning the games.

    And please drop the RBIs. Your player evaluation is laughable.

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  3. #62
    Member Mike Honcho's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Sure you do, you also look at other numbers, but again the purpose of the game is to win. So like it or not W/L for a pitcher is a stat used in negoitions of a contract weather you want to admit it or not.
    Pitcher wins are not used to evaluate pitchers. Teams wins are the goal of the game, not getting a W on the stat line for a starting pitcher. If a GM is giving credence to W/L record than he is a fool (I'm looking at you RAjr)
    They don't think it be like it is but it do.

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  4. #63
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Again when evaluating a pitcher you use a number of stats and one of them is their W/L record. How many pitchers with losing W/L have won the Cy Young award? Why is the total number of Wins by a pitcher a KEY stat in making the Hall of Fame? IF 300 wins to get into the HOF isn't so important then why is it continually one of the reasons given on those pitchers not in?

  5. #64
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Again when evaluating a pitcher you use a number of stats and one of them is their W/L record. How many pitchers with losing W/L have won the Cy Young award? Why is the total number of Wins by a pitcher a KEY stat in making the Hall of Fame? IF 300 wins to get into the HOF isn't so important then why is it continually one of the reasons given on those pitchers not in?
    Mark Beuhrle has a better career winning % than Felix Hernandez. You take your pick

  6. #65
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Mark Beuhrle has a better career winning % than Felix Hernandez. You take your pick
    Again you are wanting to go by one stat. I am saying that you look at a number of stats when reviewing a pitcher. ERA, W/L, WHIP and so on. I put the value of W/L up there as just as important as others. You don't. However again how many non 300 winners are there in the HOF? How many winners of the CY Young didn't have outstanding W/L records?

  7. #66
    Member Mike Honcho's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Again when evaluating a pitcher you use a number of stats and one of them is their W/L record. How many pitchers with losing W/L have won the Cy Young award? Why is the total number of Wins by a pitcher a KEY stat in making the Hall of Fame? IF 300 wins to get into the HOF isn't so important then why is it continually one of the reasons given on those pitchers not in?
    So much wrong with this statement. It is so bad I don't have the time or space to break it down for you.
    They don't think it be like it is but it do.

    Oscar Gamble

  8. #67
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Again you are wanting to go by one stat. I am saying that you look at a number of stats when reviewing a pitcher. ERA, W/L, WHIP and so on. I put the value of W/L up there as just as important as others. You don't. However again how many non 300 winners are there in the HOF? How many winners of the CY Young didn't have outstanding W/L records?
    What does Cy Young and HOF have to do witrh anything?

    If a GM looks at W-L when signing a player, he will be posting on here in the regular season in a few years and buying tickets to the games.

  9. #68
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Honcho View Post
    So much wrong with this statement. It is so bad I don't have the time or space to break it down for you.
    We view the game differently, that is all. Not sure why that is wrong. You value your stats, I value mine.

  10. #69
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Johnny fan, you are confusing team goals with individual accomplishments. It seems to me you are one of these guys who hates 'new age stats' and 'sabr nerds' and want things to be how they were in the past. The times are a changing my friend. Get on the train or be left behind, your choice.
    They don't think it be like it is but it do.

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  11. #70
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Honcho View Post
    Johnny fan, you are confusing team goals with individual accomplishments. It seems to me you are one of these guys who hates 'new age stats' and 'sabr nerds' and want things to be how they were in the past. The times are a changing my friend. Get on the train or be left behind, your choice.
    I couldn't disagree more, the game is the game, nothing has changed. You have some people who want to try and find "new" and interesting stats to help them "justify" their positions and such, and that is fine. But this game comes down to the simple things which makes it a great game. Like it or not Pitchers value wins and losses, it's reflected in their views and how they are rewarded for thier career. The W/L stat is an important stat and while it can be misused in juding talent, it can't be ignored either. Enjoy your WAR and VORP and WHIP and such, I will stay with the basics and enjoy the game just as much as those who love to WAR their VORP with a side of WHIP.

  12. #71
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    What does Cy Young and HOF have to do witrh anything?

    If a GM looks at W-L when signing a player, he will be posting on here in the regular season in a few years and buying tickets to the games.
    It has alot to do with the game. Why do players play, to obtain recorgnition, what is the CY YOUNG award...the recognition of the best pitcher in the game that season, what is the HOF? The ulitmate recognition of the BEST players in the game.

  13. #72
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    I couldn't disagree more, the game is the game, nothing has changed. You have some people who want to try and find "new" and interesting stats to help them "justify" their positions and such, and that is fine. But this game comes down to the simple things which makes it a great game. Like it or not Pitchers value wins and losses, it's reflected in their views and how they are rewarded for thier career. The W/L stat is an important stat and while it can be misused in juding talent, it can't be ignored either. Enjoy your WAR and VORP and WHIP and such, I will stay with the basics and enjoy the game just as much as those who love to WAR their VORP with a side of WHIP.
    lol. To each their own I guess. One last question. Why I haven't I seen you on the ORG boards yet? I want more people to behold the genius that is Johnny Fan.
    They don't think it be like it is but it do.

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  14. #73
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Unreal. I have no idea how to respond to such a ridiculous post. But then again, you were the one who claims Jon Jay is more valuable than Choo

  15. #74
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Honcho View Post
    lol. To each their own I guess. One last question. Why I haven't I seen you on the ORG boards yet? I want more people to behold the genius that is Johnny Fan.
    Why is my view wrong? Because I don't buy into your view? IF the stats I value are not that important then why do we keep them. Instead of the tripple crown winner being based on RBI and HR and such why not change that? Also with the HOF, why are the new stats the gauge and changed? I find it so interesting how some new age stat geeks are so deffensive and non accepting of others views or are looked down on as "outdated" or just wrong.

  16. #75
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    Re: Phillips gone by mid December?

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Unreal. I have no idea how to respond to such a ridiculous post. But then again, you were the one who claims Jon Jay is more valuable than Choo
    No what I said was he was more valuable to the Cards, then Choo was to the Reds. HUGE difference.


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