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Thread: Price On Chapman

  1. #16
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Code:
    15 IP miniumum
    
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    2013
    
    BASERUNNERS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    HOMERUNS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 0
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   BR/9 IP   SO/9 IP     IP       HR       GS     
    1    Aroldis Chapman            1.19     2.54     3.74     9.75    15.83     63.2       -1        0   
    2    Sam LeCure                 1.08     2.66     3.74    11.07     9.74     61          2        0   
    3    J.J. Hoover                0.87     2.86     3.74    10.23     9.14     66          1        0   
    4    Alfredo Simon              0.86     2.87     3.74    10.47     6.47     87.2        1        0   
    5    Manny Parra                0.41     3.33     3.74    10.96    10.96     46          0        0   
    6    Logan Ondrusek             -.35     4.09     3.74    11.45     8.67     55         -3        0   
    7    Jonathan Broxton           -.37     4.11     3.74    12.62     7.34     30.2       -1        0   
    8    Curtis Partch             -2.43     6.17     3.74    14.66     6.17     23.1       -6        0   
    
    
    HOUSTON ASTROS
    SEASON
    2013
    
    BASERUNNERS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    HOMERUNS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 0
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   BR/9 IP   SO/9 IP     IP       HR       GS     
    1    Kevin Chapman              2.22     1.77     3.99    11.95     6.64     20.1        1        0   
    2    Jose Veras                 1.06     2.93     3.99     9.63     9.21     43          1        0   
    3    Rhiner Cruz                0.62     3.38     3.99    16.03     4.22     21.1        0        0   
    4    Josh Zeid                  0.09     3.90     3.99    12.69     7.81     27.2        0        0   
    5    Wesley Wright              0.07     3.92     3.99    13.94     8.71     41.1        0        0   
    6    Jose Cisnero               -.13     4.12     3.99    14.84     8.45     43.2        0        0   
    7    Chia-Jen Lo                -.20     4.19     3.99    12.57     7.45     19.1        0        0   
    8    Travis Blackley            -.89     4.89     3.99    13.11     7.46     35         -6        0   
    9    Josh Fields                -.98     4.97     3.99    11.61     9.47     38         -4        0   
    10   Hector Ambriz             -1.70     5.70     3.99    16.10     6.69     36.1       -4        0
    Seems the Astros pen without Chapman looks a lot like the Reds pen
    "I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
    —Bill Cosby

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  3. #17
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    The last few days I haven't really liked what I've heard from Walt and now Price. The offseason has picked up right where the team left off at the end of May.

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  5. #18
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilHamburger View Post
    The last few days I haven't really liked what I've heard from Walt and now Price. The offseason has picked up right where the team left off at the end of May.
    I agree. I predicted a wheel-spinning offseason, and so far....

    I think it's time for Walt to hang it up. He seems a little overhelmed by the changing contours of the sport.

    2012 was Walt's Waterloo.

  6. #19
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I agree. I predicted a wheel-spinning offseason, and so far....

    I think it's time for Walt to hang it up. He seems a little overhelmed by the changing contours of the sport.

    2012 was Walt's Waterloo.
    Latos was acquired on December 17th. Choo on December 12th. It is a little early to declare the offseason finished.

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  8. #20
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    Latos was acquired on December 17th. Choo on December 12th. It is a little early to declare the offseason finished.
    I think they are trying but I wonder what exactly the Reds have to offer to get a high level player from outside.

    With Chapman in the pen the Reds aren't in a position to trade a starting pitcher.

    They now apparently want to keep Phillips.

    I doubt they are trading Hamilton or Stephenson.

    Walt says they are trying, but it's hard to see what they can do. Maybe we're talking a relatively modest free agent or two.

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  10. #21
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    I think Price will be the right guy to make the decision on Chapman. I maintain he's a very under used asset as a closer for a team with a mid level payroll, but he sure is must see TV in any 9th inning.

    Chapman to the rotation and Bailey moved (assuming no LTC is possible) seems like the right move to keep the window open past 2014-15. Otherwise totally agree that the Reds have little of value to trade in the offseason other than those two arms. (Cingrani, Bruce, Latos aren't going anywhere)

  11. #22
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post

    I think it's time for Walt to hang it up. He seems a little overhelmed by the changing contours of the sport.

    2012 was Walt's Waterloo.
    I'm so overwhelmed by the changing contours of the sport, i don't even know what's changing. I do think comparing Walt to The Little Corporal is a bit of a stretch.

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  13. #23
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    What's really changing? Yankees spending money like drunken sailors. We've never seen anything like that in the last 40 years.

    The Reds are limited by payroll and several near term bad contracts such as Ludwick and Broxton. Hoping Walt can pull a rabbit out of the hat to improve the club on paper in 2014, but I think that's a best case scenario. A realsitic scenario is probably to improve slightly in 2014 to ensure playoff contention and better position the franchise to extend the current window of opportunity from 2014-15 out a few more years.

    LTCs to Bailey and Latos alone would make this a successful offseason from my standpoint.

  14. #24
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    I agree with this. An appearance in the 7th with runners on and the heart of the order coming to bat can be more critical than protecting a lead in the ninth with no one on base.
    As I see it, the problem with that is he often takes a batter or two to find any kind of control. Using Chapman as closer was one of the few decisions that I actually agreed with Baker on...but I have to admit that I'm curious to see what he could do as a starter.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think they are trying but I wonder what exactly the Reds have to offer to get a high level player from outside.

    With Chapman in the pen the Reds aren't in a position to trade a starting pitcher.

    They now apparently want to keep Phillips.

    I doubt they are trading Hamilton or Stephenson.

    Walt says they are trying, but it's hard to see what they can do. Maybe we're talking a relatively modest free agent or two.
    Bailey's the only player that could bring a substantial return, but I really don't think Jocketty's constitutionally disposed to high risk trades like that in a contention window. I'll say they either sign Bailey or let him walk in FA.

  16. #26
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    Latos was acquired on December 17th. Choo on December 12th. It is a little early to declare the offseason finished.
    I did say "so far." But like KC said, whither the payroll room or the tradable commodities?

    The conditions do not at all point to a major trade. I'd love for Jocketty to take a one-step-back-to-take-three-steps-forward type of trade that less conservative clubs make, but Jocketty's career history is almost empty of such moves.

  17. #27
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I did say "so far." But like KC said, whither the payroll room or the tradable commodities?

    The conditions do not at all point to a major trade. I'd love for Jocketty to take a one-step-back-to-take-three-steps-forward type of trade that less conservative clubs make, but Jocketty's career history is almost empty of such moves.
    You also compared the Reds BP to the Astros.

  18. #28
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I did say "so far." But like KC said, whither the payroll room or the tradable commodities?

    The conditions do not at all point to a major trade. I'd love for Jocketty to take a one-step-back-to-take-three-steps-forward type of trade that less conservative clubs make, but Jocketty's career history is almost empty of such moves.
    His career is also full of trophies. Every year Walt makes good-to-great trades. In fact, he just made one. What you don't see from Walt is a history of stupid deals. He's patient. He's surgical. He makes sure he gets what he wants and gives what he wants.

    I suspect right now he's got a pile of cash in his pocket and he's waiting to see how Choo plays out. My guess is a lot of teams reported to be after Choo want him somewhere in the same range the Reds are probably eyeing - 4/$70. Is someone willing to go 5/$100? Don't know. The Mariners seem desperate. If Choo jumps elsewhere, I would expect Walt to be opportunistic.

    Plan A is still on the table. If that doesn't work out, Walt will add to what he's got and not rip apart what he's got for show.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  20. #29
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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yep, once Price proves to be just like every other manager in history the sheen will come off him like an action figure taken out of the packaging.
    Somewhere Raisor both smiled inside and cringed in revolt simultaneously.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Price On Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    His career is also full of trophies. Every year Walt makes good-to-great trades. In fact, he just made one. What you don't see from Walt is a history of stupid deals. He's patient. He's surgical. He makes sure he gets what he wants and gives what he wants.

    I suspect right now he's got a pile of cash in his pocket and he's waiting to see how Choo plays out. My guess is a lot of teams reported to be after Choo want him somewhere in the same range the Reds are probably eyeing - 4/$70. Is someone willing to go 5/$100? Don't know. The Mariners seem desperate. If Choo jumps elsewhere, I would expect Walt to be opportunistic.

    Plan A is still on the table. If that doesn't work out, Walt will add to what he's got and not rip apart what he's got for show.

    One world championship and one pennant. Good, but he's no immortal. His successor has already lapped him in St. Louis.

    I loved when the team got Jocketty and on balance, he's made more good deals than bad ones as the Reds' GM. But being a good GM isn't double entry bookkeeping. You don't win because you come out ahead in the deal ledger. You win because you corner the market on genius and you make the most of the circumstances around you. The Reds' circumstances are very solid, but I don't think Jocketty's the GM to drive the stake home anymore. Their situation calls for creativity that Walt has shown no tendency toward.


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