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Thread: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

  1. #31
    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    I'm not sure what is going on here.

    1) How can Paul George be the MVP when he isn't the MVP of his own team? Hibbert is the reason the Pacers are as successful as they are. He is a singular defensive force that dominates and changes games like only a few players in basketball do.

    2) I love David West, but he is a slower, tougher Chris Bosh. Over 60% of his shots are jumpers, just like Bosh.

    3) LeBron is shooting 58% and 48% from 3. If you watch him closely, he has a mastery of basketball that only Jordan, Bird, Magic, and Duncan have had in the last 30 years. He is the MVP until someone rips it from his cold dead hands.

    4) Wade is on the Duncan plan. Why use him too much in November and December? He has been somewhat injured in the last two playoffs and if he is 100%, Miami is almost unbeatable.

    5) I'm not sure about the love for Larry O'Brien. He oversaw the league at its lowest point. NBA Finals on tape delay, cocaine problems, etc...

    6) I'm really tired of the David Stern is corrupt stuff. Smart organizations win, dumb ones lose.
    -Wouldn't the Knicks have won by now if he were truly corrupt?
    -Wouldn't Duncan have gone to Boston?
    -Did Stern control that ball being tipped out to Robert Horry for that three?
    -Did Stern get the rebound and pass the ball out to Ray Allen last year?

    So, can the Pacers win this season? Yes. But I think they need an injury to one of Miami's big three. Two years ago, the Heat beat them essentially without Bosh and last year they beat them with Wade on one knee.
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  3. #32
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    One factor that will be interesting to me is how the battle for home court goes.

    Say what you will about Wade's status last year(or a presumed better health status this year.) But last year's Pacer team took Miami to 7 games. IMO, this year's Pacer team is better, this year's Heat team is slightly worse, and if Game 7 is in Indianapolis, I'm not sure I'd bet on the Heat.

    One reason this intrigues me is the difference in attitudes between the two teams thus far. The Pacers have been attacking games as if their very playoff existence depended on winning from game 1. Is that sustainable for 4 more months(+Playoffs?)

    OTOH, The Heat are playing like they've seen this script before. Obviously, they're talented enough to still win a LOT of games this way, but if the Pacers are able to keep ahead in the race for the #1 seed, how does that impact the playoffs?
    When people say that I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  4. #33
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I'm not sure what is going on here.

    1) How can Paul George be the MVP when he isn't the MVP of his own team? Hibbert is the reason the Pacers are as successful as they are. He is a singular defensive force that dominates and changes games like only a few players in basketball do.

    Hibbert is more valuable to the Pacers than George? We'll have to agree to disagree.

    2) I love David West, but he is a slower, tougher Chris Bosh. Over 60% of his shots are jumpers, just like Bosh.

    Who also presents match-up problems for almost any team. Against Miami, for example, West rendered Battier useless, forcing the Heat to go with Haslem for long stretches, significantly slowing down the Heat offense . If that weren't enough, there is now no offensive letdown as opposing teams now get to deal with Luis Scola -- when West rests or alongside West when Hibbert rests. Good luck with that.


    3) LeBron is shooting 58% and 48% from 3. If you watch him closely, he has a mastery of basketball that only Jordan, Bird, Magic, and Duncan have had in the last 30 years. He is the MVP until someone rips it from his cold dead hands.

    Agreed.


    4) Wade is on the Duncan plan. Why use him too much in November and December? He has been somewhat injured in the last two playoffs and if he is 100%, Miami is almost unbeatable.

    True. But it may cost the Heat homecourt advantage.


    5) I'm not sure about the love for Larry O'Brien. He oversaw the league at its lowest point. NBA Finals on tape delay, cocaine problems, etc...

    I'm of the opinion that the league's mid '80's resurgence had more to do with the ballyhooed '84 draft class following Sampson -- who, when healthy was very much a Superstar -- into the league than anything else. In other words, it would have happened no matter the Commissioner.

    O'brien also had the guts to deal with Donald Sterling and his shenanigans in San Diego -- purposely running a team into the ground to move to L.A, even forcing him to sell the team. Alas, David Stern took over and foolishly relented. The league would have -- and still would be -- better off without a scumbag like Sterling and the black-eye the league receives from his mere presence.



    6) I'm really tired of the David Stern is corrupt stuff. Smart organizations win, dumb ones lose.
    -Wouldn't the Knicks have won by now if he were truly corrupt?
    -Wouldn't Duncan have gone to Boston?
    -Did Stern control that ball being tipped out to Robert Horry for that three?
    -Did Stern get the rebound and pass the ball out to Ray Allen last year?

    I'm not really buying the corrupt angle as a whole, but the proof is in the video for the '85 Draft Lottery with the dog-eared envelope.

    Granted, no Commissioner is perfect, and there were other Stern era blunders:

    *Instability, due to Several franchise shifts, with only one -- Kansas City flat-out stopped supporting the Kings -- justified, IMO. The Seattle situation borders on criminal and Stern, as a friend of Clay Bennett, had a hand in that.

    *Over-expansion too quickly before International Basketball reached the quality it is today, resulting in some overall poor NBA quality during the late 90's until the rules were changed to diminish the slow isolation game.


    So, can the Pacers win this season? Yes. But I think they need an injury to one of Miami's big three. Two years ago, the Heat beat them essentially without Bosh and last year they beat them with Wade on one knee

    And the flip side of that argument, which Heat fans seem to conveniently ignore, is that the Pacers didn't have Granger last year and their bench was way below average. Yet they still took the Heat to seven games and may well could have stolen game one if not for two tactical errors -- guarding the in-bounds passer with only two seconds on the clock and not having Hibbert on the floor. Then again, Lebron, as by-far the best player on the Planet has a way of making even the best defenses look bad, so who knows.

    Should the Pacers and Heat meet in the ECF again, I'm not sure that regular season match-ups between the two teams are going to tell us a whole lot either way. We can talk about the Heat's big three until we are blue in the face, but, IMO, the Heat's chances of repeating increase exponentially if Greg Oden is healthy and can provide 15 solid minutes of interior defense a night. We'll see.



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  5. #34
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    The matchup nightmare is Hibbert. Miami has no one other than the mentioned and complete unknown of Greg Oden who can come close to guarding him. West isn't a huge problem. If Indiana wants to beat Miami with mid-range jumpers, go ahead.

    Before the Indiana series last year, the Heat coaches noticed LeBron practicing floaters. They yelled at him for doing it, but he was getting ready for Hibbert. West doesn't demand that kind of respect.

    As for the Hibbert or George as team MVP, here is my argument. You aren't going to beat Miami on the wings. As good as George has been, it is pretty unlikely that he will be better than LeBron over seven games. But, Hibbert can thoroughly dominate the Heat down low. As a Heat fan, I have nightmares about Hibbert and am amused by George. I also want to see George continue making jumpers at this insane clip for him.
    Last edited by improbus; 12-06-2013 at 02:08 PM.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Paul George is one of the best two players in the NBA...after LeBron.

    Hibbert is the most dominant defensive presence in the NBA after Howard.


    It's hard to measure MVP from that, but I would agree that Hibbert is more important when you are looking at who is more valuable to the team. It's not always the best player on the team, such as the case in Indiana.

    Mo Williams, for example, isn't even a starter and he's been the most valuable player for the Blazers to me, soley due to his leadership of the entire team, his verocity of establishing a no-holds-bar attitude when playing Defense and to do it for 48 minutes, and his running of the Offense both with the second team and with the first team (where they put Lillard at the #2 spot). Without Mo Williams, the Trailblazers are the soft team that they've been for the last 40 years. They've never had a player like this on their team. Might be that Mississippi toughness that Williams brings, but he demands it out of his teammates. Looking back, he made Utah what they were last season. What Utah is this season is what Utah would have been last season without Mo Williams. He elevates everyone's game and gets teammates to play hard for 48 minutes. He didn't use to be like that, but he has become this type of player in his acceptance as a non-starter (though he's seen on this team as important as any starter...the first player who comes off the bench while playing many minutes with the starters).

    Hibbert starts and ends the discussion when you think of what type of team that Indiana is. They are a defensive shutdown team, capable of dominating the last five minutes of any game because of their defense. How Hibbert plays dictates how Indiana plays.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 12-06-2013 at 02:17 PM.

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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    ...and yes...moron-move-of-the-year last season was leaving Hibbert on the bench at the end of that game.

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    George Anderson (12-07-2013)

  9. #37
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Pacers in five.

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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Looking back, he made Utah what they were last season. What Utah is this season is what Utah would have been last season without Mo Williams.
    Clearly they don't miss Paul Millsap (14.6 points, 7.1 boards or Al Jefferson (17.8 points, 9.2 boards).

  11. #39
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Clearly they don't miss Paul Millsap (14.6 points, 7.1 boards or Al Jefferson (17.8 points, 9.2 boards).
    Yeah, that may have played a wee small role in the Jazz's slow start this season. All kidding aside, Kanter and Favors are going to be beasts in their own right.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Clearly they don't miss Paul Millsap (14.6 points, 7.1 boards or Al Jefferson (17.8 points, 9.2 boards).
    They definitely miss them, too.

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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    All kidding aside, Kanter and Favors are going to be beasts in their own right.
    I'll get a good, close-up look at them in about two hours.

  14. #42
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    The matchup nightmare is Hibbert. Miami has no one other than the mentioned and complete unknown of Greg Oden who can come close to guarding him. West isn't a huge problem. If Indiana wants to beat Miami with mid-range jumpers, go ahead.

    .
    I'm hardly going out on a limb here but I doubt seriously Oden is around come playoff time. If he is and also healthy then yes it will be a nice luxury for the Heat to have.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  15. #43
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I'm hardly going out on a limb here but I doubt seriously Oden is around come playoff time. If he is and also healthy then yes it will be a nice luxury for the Heat to have.
    I agree there.
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  16. #44
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Revering4Blue, it was myself who was the first to praise the Indiana Pacers three seasons ago predicting their rise. I praised what Bird was putting together and that the pieces were in place with only a little maturity left for them to reach the Finals. I thought they were the best team in the NBA last season regardless of who won (Miami was lucky with a desperate 3-point shot after a lucky rebound, otherwise the Spurs were the actual Champions). I felt going into this season that the Pacers were the best team in the NBA again. I still feel that they are going to win it all.
    Indiana was 49-32 last year. That is solid, but certainly not the best team in basketball. They shot 44% as a team and were one of the worst offensive teams in basketball last year. Their Offensive Rating last year was the same as the Cavs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    While Portland is the best team in the NBA right now, and may be all season long, their issue is going to be the playoffs. They haven't won a playoff series in 14 seasons. In the NBA, you can't (almost never) get past one round until you've successfully lost in that round. Since they have never lost in the 2nd Round, it's not very likely that they can get past the 2nd Round. They dominate the Spurs, so if they are lucky enough to face them, then they can get past the 2nd Round, but if it's Houston or OKC, it's going to be very difficult. Portland is not going to get calls from the refs. They don't have the marquee players or David Stern's love.
    The Blazers won't get calls because the shoot a ton of jump shots. LeMarcus only takes 30% of his shots at the rim. Durant takes 36% of his shots at the rim. Westbrook takes 41% at the rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I love Kevin Pritchard and root for him and the Pacers in the East. Hate Miami and love every loss they get. The Indiana Pacer model is the correct model for building a Championship. It's what Bird and Pritchard both believe in to a core.
    I'm not sure I know what this even means.
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  17. #45
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    Re: 2013-14 Indiana Pacers

    First game back home is basically the last game of a road trip.

    Six Cities in 10 Nights, which included back-to-backs in both L.A. (Clippers)/Portland and San Antonio/Oklahoma City.

    Lost both of the back-ends of the back-to-backs (Portland had five games in seven nights with two back-to-backs, in L.A. (Lakers)/Portland (Indiana) and Portland (Utah)/Portland (Dallas) losing the back-end of the second back-to-back on a buzzer-beater to Dallas).

    Indiana came out pretty good on that trip with victories over the Clippers and Spurs. They were definitely tired vs OKC and OKC knew it going in, running at every opportunity.

    Miami gets the advantage of Indiana having been in their sixth City in ten nights (seventh city, if you count that they started in Indianapolis) against the very best teams in the NBA.

    For Miami, they will be in their fourth city in six nights (five cities if you count that they started in Miami). However, unlike the gauntlet of high-quality teams Indiana just faced, the Heat have only faced one team in their last 11 games who had a winning record, and that was the 7-5 Phoenix Suns,...a cake-walk of a schedule. To their credit, they won nine of those 11 games. But, tonight, they have to face a real team.

    Just a few hundred seats left. Should sell out by game-time. Going to be a great game.

    Indiana is currently favored by 3-1/2 with the over/under at 192.5. I'll take the Pacers and the Under.

    It's got to be very difficult for Miami to get motivated to play every night as they have already won back-to-back titles while playing nobody of importance for the last four weeks. It will be interesting how they react to their first game with self-motivating factors in it in about a month.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 12-10-2013 at 08:03 PM.


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