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Thread: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

  1. #31
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    My guess since BP was shopped and it was no secret they were looking for LF help that they arent OK with it.
    Where have the Reds said they were not ok with LF? As for Brandon it was never a performance issue, it was the owner got his undies in a bunch over off the field issues. And why didn't anyone want BP, simple, the Reds gave him a vary unfavorable contract and his no trade clause limits the teams he could be traded to. Nothing at all to do with present performance.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    I prefer to keep it within a few years. Not sure what he did 5 years ago has any bearing on where he is today. He has OPS'd 1 in the last 3 over .700. If people think he is fine in LF and Phillips is fine at 2B, I am not sure where to go with this.
    This... I hope i'm dead wrong on Ludwick, but the last few years hes been at
    2010: 743 OPS
    2011: 674 OPS
    2012: 877 OPS
    2013: 618 OPS

    Now another year older (i think 35 this year?) it's hard to imagine him being the player he was in 2012. Outside of his monster 2008 year that was his best offensive year of his career, and seems to be more of an outlier than true reflection of his ability at this point. But then again I also thought Drew Stubbs was going to be an all-star caliber player so what do i know?

  4. #33
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    Where have the Reds said they were not ok with LF? As for Brandon it was never a performance issue, it was the owner got his undies in a bunch over off the field issues. And why didn't anyone want BP, simple, the Reds gave him a vary unfavorable contract and his no trade clause limits the teams he could be traded to. Nothing at all to do with present performance.
    Of course they arent going to come out and say they arent happy with LF performance. LOL. But when you look for one it prety much answers the question. And no, it wasnt off the field for BP. He has and always will be the same. But when production goes down, and you can argue until you are blue in the face but it has been, then those "problems" come out. Thus they shopped him.

  5. #34
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    I prefer to keep it within a few years. Not sure what he did 5 years ago has any bearing on where he is today. He has OPS'd 1 in the last 3 over .700. If people think he is fine in LF and Phillips is fine at 2B, I am not sure where to go with this.
    He OPSd .877 in 2012 and he'll be batting virtually in the same lineup spot. I know he's older, but he was obviously hurting when he swing last year at the end of the season. He'll OPS over .700 next year. Probably between .725 and .750 if I had to guess. His swing is Taylor made for GABP. Phillips will OPS north of .700 as well. He was obviously slowed by and injury last year. I'd live to see the Reds make a good solid move to improve the club. To do that though, they'd have to move pitching more than likely. We'd have to see what arroyo will do first. Same with Choo. We saw where he went, but if energy and money were earmarked on him, it may have made other deals more complicated to make.

    I guess my point is that the Reds are a much better team as of right now than we are giving them credit for and are very capable if making the playoffs based in the pitching, and advancing because of that pitching and hopefully a better tactical manager in price.

    Also, Walt isn't sitting on his hands, he has made lesser deals to improve the team. Pena gives the Reds a chance to play Mes full time which will increase C offensive production. Shumacker is a tough veteran sub with OBP skills that can play a variety of positions. Walt also turned a catcher who barely hit his weight into a nice pitching prospect.

    Finally, the Market for the Reds is slower to develop this year than in years past. We had to wait out Choo and probably Arroyo too. I imagine Walt isn't done. But making rushed trades for marginal improvements instead of making wise traded for definite ones is the stuff bad trades are made of.

    Now if we at at the same juncture at opening day as now, I'd be a little worried, but were not. The Reds aren't going to magically improve. Players are going to come back from injury and give the team healthy talent that they often lacked in 2013, plus I also think the trade market for the Reds has been slow to develop, but once it does Walt will make a solid move.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 12-24-2013 at 01:15 PM.

  6. #35
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    But I do agree that they are looking to improve the teams offense in LF and looked at moving Phillips. It's out there in the press, so I imagine things have been discussed behind the scenes.

    But what I don't get is the panic. Ludwick will be better than LF last year, and Phillips will be better than he was in the second half of last year after the injury.

  7. #36
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Of course they arent going to come out and say they arent happy with LF performance. LOL. But when you look for one it prety much answers the question. And no, it wasnt off the field for BP. He has and always will be the same. But when production goes down, and you can argue until you are blue in the face but it has been, then those "problems" come out. Thus they shopped him.
    They just inked the new deal in what 2012, and NOW they don't like his production? Walt knew what they were getting when they inked the deal. They KNEW that players performances begin a decline after a certain age which Brandon has passed, so why the deal and why the number of years just to turn around after the 2013 season and want him out? The issue is off field related, if Brandon had not done what he did off field, there is ZERO talk of a trade this offseason. The Reds KNEW when they resigned him what they had and would have in coming seasons.

    As for LF, the problem is with fans, not Walt or Price. Both are fine with LF and if not then there would be some rumbblings somewhere and there haven't been. Ludwick had a horrible 2013 due to injury, but I am not willing to say his career is over due to it.

    What I continue to read are people basing views on what "might" happen, well lets see "what" happens and then look to change. The Reds have put together a nice run here, with a better manager things may have gone better in the playoffs, but you can't argue with how they have performed in the regular season.

  8. #37
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    They just inked the new deal in what 2012, and NOW they don't like his production? Walt knew what they were getting when they inked the deal. They KNEW that players performances begin a decline after a certain age which Brandon has passed, so why the deal and why the number of years just to turn around after the 2013 season and want him out? The issue is off field related, if Brandon had not done what he did off field, there is ZERO talk of a trade this offseason. The Reds KNEW when they resigned him what they had and would have in coming seasons.

    As for LF, the problem is with fans, not Walt or Price. Both are fine with LF and if not then there would be some rumbblings somewhere and there haven't been. Ludwick had a horrible 2013 due to injury, but I am not willing to say his career is over due to it.

    What I continue to read are people basing views on what "might" happen, well lets see "what" happens and then look to change. The Reds have put together a nice run here, with a better manager things may have gone better in the playoffs, but you can't argue with how they have performed in the regular season.
    Arent you basing your views on what "might" happen? The difference between me and you is I look at what HAS happened and IS happening.

    As for Phillips, his OPS has gone from .810 in 2011 to .750 in 2012 to .706 in 2013. He will be 33 next year. If you want to think that his hitting is going to imp;rove, then you REALLY are looking what "might" happen. BP is fading and if he is here all next year it will not end pretty.

    As for his contrtact and moving him. Do you think the Angels would like to move Pujols and Hamilton? They just signed contracts.

  9. #38
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Arent you basing your views on what "might" happen? The difference between me and you is I look at what HAS happened and IS happening.

    As for Phillips, his OPS has gone from .810 in 2011 to .750 in 2012 to .706 in 2013. He will be 33 next year. If you want to think that his hitting is going to imp;rove, then you REALLY are looking what "might" happen. BP is fading and if he is here all next year it will not end pretty.

    As for his contrtact and moving him. Do you think the Angels would like to move Pujols and Hamilton? They just signed contracts.
    No I don't think Phillips will "improve" but I think at his skill set for 2014 and even 2015 he is still worth what we are paying him, my issue is the other two years. I do "hope" that with a new manager and hitting approach they can maximize all of the talent Brandon has. I believe his Defense more then makes up for the declining numbers at the plate and believe defensivly he is the best in the NL at second and will live with whatever possible decline he has at the plate.

  10. #39
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    No I don't think Phillips will "improve" but I think at his skill set for 2014 and even 2015 he is still worth what we are paying him, my issue is the other two years. I do "hope" that with a new manager and hitting approach they can maximize all of the talent Brandon has. I believe his Defense more then makes up for the declining numbers at the plate and believe defensivly he is the best in the NL at second and will live with whatever possible decline he has at the plate.
    Just an FYI, his defense is decling also. But go ahead and hitch your trailer to a LF that will be 36 and a 2B who is decling rapidly

  11. #40
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    As for his contrtact and moving him. Do you think the Angels would like to move Pujols and Hamilton? They just signed contracts.
    at this point no, I bet that the Angels still believe at this point that both are wise investments for the 2014 season and probably past that, now BTB sub par seasons may change their view, but again with no salary cap in baseball, teams like the Angels can afford bad contracts.

  12. #41
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Just an FYI, his defense is decling also. But go ahead and hitch your trailer to a LF that will be 36 and a 2B who is decling rapidly
    Okay who are there replacement? This isn't roto baseball, you can't offer teams X and get back Y and Z. Sure I would love to see Ryan Braun and Cano on the Reds in those positions, but that ain't happening.

  13. #42
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Just an FYI, his defense is decling also. But go ahead and hitch your trailer to a LF that will be 36 and a 2B who is decling rapidly
    Oh and even in a somewhat "declining" state his D is still better then 95% I bet of the 2nd basemen in the league next season and probably in the top 10% in 2015, so I can live with that decline.

  14. #43
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    at this point no, I bet that the Angels still believe at this point that both are wise investments for the 2014 season and probably past that, now BTB sub par seasons may change their view, but again with no salary cap in baseball, teams like the Angels can afford bad contracts.
    Are you really saying the Angels wouldnt unload those 2 if they could? Christ. I give

  15. #44
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    Are you really saying the Angels wouldnt unload those 2 if they could? Christ. I give
    At this point, no I don't think they would, what leads you to believe they would?

  16. #45
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    Re: Reds were waiting to see what Choo would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Fan View Post
    At this point, no I don't think they would, what leads you to believe they would?
    because they are awful cntracts for 2 guys that arent performing. See thats what GMs do. They dont look what they did 4 yearsa ago. They dont get thrilled with RBIs.


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