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Thread: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

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  1. #1
    There's no Walt only Zuul villain612's Avatar
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    Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    My first thread!

    Anyway, as the title suggests, I think the Reds need to move Jay Bruce into the cleanup spot.

    Sure, I don't think Jay is a natural cleanup guy - the 5 hole seems to suit him better - but right now, not having anyone to protect Joey Votto is seriously hurting our offensive production (especially with the loss of Choo). So in lieu of finding an actual cleanup hitter, I say put Jay right behind Votto - clump your two best hitters together. I think Votto will start seeing better pitches to hit and will start swinging the bat more. As it stands now he's taking a lot of walks because pitchers do not fear Brandon Phillips - to me, the only other batter in the lineup to fear than Votto is clearly Jay Bruce. Can't criticize Votto for getting on base because he's walking.

    I know there are arguments out there about putting two lefties together but call me new school, I don't really care about that argument. Someone else stated in better in a thread in the ORG, but basing your lineup on a hypothetical at bat late in the games while sacrificing all the at bats in the first 6 innings of the game is nuts to me. Besides, Jay Bruce has led the lead in Lefty vs Lefty home runs the last 3 seasons (I think).
    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

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    Plan to be spontaneous Jefferson24's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    This would be fine if they move Votto up to the 2 spot. Especially true if last years approach continues.
    We only live in patches. - H. G. Wells

  3. #3
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson24 View Post
    This would be fine if they move Votto up to the 2 spot. Especially true if last years approach continues.
    Honestly, half of the reason I think Bruce needs to bat 4th is to protect Votto in the lineup, so moving Joey to 2nd would basically nullify my proposed strategy.

    As it stands now, as long as there's no one behind Votto to inspire fear in opposing pitchers, he will continually be pitched around. Jay Bruce is the ONLY other guy in the lineup that inspires any kind of fear so I think it best to clump them together. I can't criticize Votto for not swinging at bad pitches and taking walks. This will continue as long as he doesn't have protection.
    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Bruce is the only guy we have capable of hitting behind Votto. No brainer.

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    I'd love to see Jay in the cleanup spot. If it were up to me, I think I'd try Billy, Joey, Brandon and then Jay though. I think the 3 spot suits Brandon well, as he might just finally hit instead of worrying about his perceived role on the offense (your role is to try not to make an out, Brandon!). Jay looks like he's ready to be a force in the middle of the lineup to me, and I am all for getting your best hitters more ABs.

    Billy seems to have the makeup to be able to withstand the rigors of the leadoff spot (though admittedly, I do not know him personally), and if he can keep his OBP around even .315 or .320, he'll be a run scoring monster. With his speed, that OBP will put him in scoring position (after steals and being able to advance on balls most could not) as frequently as another leadoff hitter with a .350-.360 OBP. I'm totally guessing on the math here, but it seems like an educated guess to me. I'll miss Choo as much as anyone, but I'm excited to see what Billy can do.

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    Torty ac084c's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by JMac84 View Post
    I'd love to see Jay in the cleanup spot. If it were up to me, I think I'd try Billy, Joey, Brandon and then Jay though. I think the 3 spot suits Brandon well, as he might just finally hit instead of worrying about his perceived role on the offense (your role is to try not to make an out, Brandon!). Jay looks like he's ready to be a force in the middle of the lineup to me, and I am all for getting your best hitters more ABs.

    Billy seems to have the makeup to be able to withstand the rigors of the leadoff spot (though admittedly, I do not know him personally), and if he can keep his OBP around even .315 or .320, he'll be a run scoring monster. With his speed, that OBP will put him in scoring position (after steals and being able to advance on balls most could not) as frequently as another leadoff hitter with a .350-.360 OBP. I'm totally guessing on the math here, but it seems like an educated guess to me. I'll miss Choo as much as anyone, but I'm excited to see what Billy can do.
    You understand that a .315/.320 OBP is not good, right? Furthermore, it's atrocious for a leadoff hitter. Choo had a .423 OBP last year - and he only scored 107 runs. You're telling me that because Hamilton is fast and a SB threat he's going to score more than that while getting on base at a clip more than 100 points lower?

    I'll have what you're having.

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    villain612 (12-28-2013)

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson24 View Post
    This would be fine if they move Votto up to the 2 spot. Especially true if last years approach continues.
    Big fan of this. Hes perfect for a 2 hole hitter. Good OBP, see a lot of pitches, good bat control, the list goes on and on. I think Hamilton and votto hitting 1st and 2nd gives you a lot of options, provided Hamilton gets on base at a decent clip. The only real concern is if he returns to the MVP power numbers he put up a few years ago, but thats a good problem to have.

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    Torty ac084c's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by No pants Mcgee View Post
    Big fan of this. Hes perfect for a 2 hole hitter. Good OBP, see a lot of pitches, good bat control, the list goes on and on. I think Hamilton and votto hitting 1st and 2nd gives you a lot of options, provided Hamilton gets on base at a decent clip. The only real concern is if he returns to the MVP power numbers he put up a few years ago, but thats a good problem to have.
    Who's going to bat 3rd? Ludwick?

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    Who's going to bat 3rd? Ludwick?
    i agree you don't have a perfect 3 hole hitter if you move votto, but you dont have an ideal 2 hitter either if you dont. Personally i wouldn't be against moving Bruce up to 3rd. The big question in my mind in this scenario is BP. Hes likely to hit somewhere 2-4 if we like it or not.

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    Torty ac084c's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by No pants Mcgee View Post
    i agree you don't have a perfect 3 hole hitter if you move votto, but you dont have an ideal 2 hitter either if you dont. Personally i wouldn't be against moving Bruce up to 3rd. The big question in my mind in this scenario is BP. Hes likely to hit somewhere 2-4 if we like it or not.
    I think it's a moot point of Hamilton gets on base at a 350-360 clip from the leadoff spot.

    However, I think that's pretty unlikely.

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    I think this is going to be a very interesting season. How will our new manager decide to use his talent. Personally I am already a bit scared with Walt saying Billy Hamilton will bat leadoff. I would rather see him hit say 8th for the first few months, let him get his feet wet before puting him in that presure slot. I would go with Brandon, Votto, Bruce, Ludwick as my first 4 to start the season.

  14. #12
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Stubbs scored 75 runs with a .277 OBP. Speed does matter if its really exceptional speed. BH is even faster than Stubbs and a .300-.315 OBP isn't out of the question. I doubt he's any higher than that but even at .300 he should score at least 90 runs with Votto, Phillips and Bruce hitting behind him. That is only 15 runs or so behind Choo. A better season by Mes, Frazier and/or Cozie would help offset that little difference. I'm not worried about the Reds matching 2013's runs scored, I'm worried about being able to better it and keeping the pitching healthy, especially the bullpen.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Back to the thread topic.

    B Ham, Joey, BP, JB, Ludwick, if Joey is going to be great at OBP, I would put him in the 2 hole
    Pete Rose will be leaving the Montreal Expos to become player - manager for the Cincinnati Reds

  17. #14
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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou1990 View Post
    Back to the thread topic.

    B Ham, Joey, BP, JB, Ludwick, if Joey is going to be great at OBP, I would put him in the 2 hole
    My overall point is that if you put Jay Bruce batting directly behind Votto all the time, then Votto's production numbers won't mirror that of a 2 hole hitter.
    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

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    Re: Jay Bruce Needs to Bat Cleanup

    Ok, I'm not looking for the best numbers at the 2 hole, but the best line up. I posted my guess , the statnics can run the numbers, but my vote is the same as posted, with Votto 2 and BP #3.
    Pete Rose will be leaving the Montreal Expos to become player - manager for the Cincinnati Reds


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