How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

[Norm Chortleton]

The whole implication, hyperbole or not, was that a 23 year old Bagwell was gangly. Google search tells me he absolutely wasn't.

The implication was, as a friend of mine said to me last night, Bagwell came into MLB looking like a kicker and left looking like a linebacker. I believe Google search will back this up as well.

And please let me imply what I mean from now on. I'm better at it than you.

[Johnny Footstool]

Do people feel differently about Lance Armstrong as opposed to the PED users in MLB?

[dougdirt]

Do people feel differently about Lance Armstrong as opposed to the PED users in MLB?

Do people really care about Lance Armstrong the cyclist, or did they just really care about a cancer survivor doing well? If another USA cyclist who hadn't beaten cancer gone out and performed exactly the same and didn't hav a foundation, would anyone actually care about it at all?

[jojo]

Do people feel differently about Lance Armstrong as opposed to the PED users in MLB?

The whole sport was doping. Lance Armstrong is the greatest cyclist to ever live...he dominated cycling at a time technology both mechanical and medicinal had raised the level of performance higher than ever before and he did it when he should've been dead.

Baseball? The whole sport was doping. Barry Bonds is the second greatest hitter to ever live. He dominated baseball at a time technology both mechanical and medicinal had raised the level of performance higher than ever before and he did it when he should've been on deadman's aging curve.

[SunDeck]

Good question. I think The Armstrong cancer survivor narrative was obviously compelling, but winning seven Tour de France titles was crazy and thus merited the hype. I recall there was an upsurge in attention paid to the event in the US when Lemond won it three times in a row because he was the first non-European to win it. Had he done what Armstrong did, I think maybe people would have been interested. He might have been capable; he missed two years due to a hunting injury and won on his return.

I think he's not popular in the American cycling community because of his early accusations against Armstrong. Who knows? Cycling having been what it is, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he also turned out to be a PED user.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Tend to agree, jojo. Kind of at the point where the era should just be tagged and move on. That's not fair to the guys who played it clean, but the more you learn, it sounds like they were the exception.

[Red in Chicago]

If RedsZone thinks Reds fans turn on their own, White Sox fans turned on Frank just as much.

Many, many moons ago, I managed a Blockbuster Video store. Frank and his family came in every now and then. He was always friendly to us. It was hit or miss with the wife.

Would love to see the Big Hurt make it to the HOF. He was an awesome hitter during his prime.

[Superdude]

The implication was, as a friend of mine said to me last night, Bagwell came into MLB looking like a kicker and left looking like a linebacker. I believe Google search will back this up as well.

And please let me imply what I mean from now on. I'm better at it than you.

Sorry if that came off like I was trying to start a big thing. I was just pointing out that Bagwell was a pretty sturdy young man considering he may have hardly touched a weight before 1991.

[BluegrassRedleg]

If RedsZone thinks Reds fans turn on their own, White Sox fans turned on Frank just as much.

Many, many moons ago, I managed a Blockbuster Video store. Frank and his family came in every now and then. He was always friendly to us. It was hit or miss with the wife.

Would love to see the Big Hurt make it to the HOF. He was an awesome hitter during his prime.

What's the backstory there? I don't recall things going sour for him there. Was it just because of declining numbers late in his career?

[Rijo's Ghost]

The implication was, as a friend of mine said to me last night, Bagwell came into MLB looking like a kicker and left looking like a linebacker. I believe Google search will back this up as well.

And please let me imply what I mean from now on. I'm better at it than you.

Of course he got bigger when he hit his physical prime. Nearly everyone does.

[M2]

Do people really care about Lance Armstrong the cyclist, or did they just really care about a cancer survivor doing well? If another USA cyclist who hadn't beaten cancer gone out and performed exactly the same and didn't hav a foundation, would anyone actually care about it at all?

You're right that his back story put Armstrong in the spotlight. He also was amazing. Even in a sport where everyone was doped to the hilt, Armstrong was like an alien. Frankly, if his PED usage doesn't lead to health problems down the road, then he might be the best argument in favor of roids that I've ever seen. If the only side effect is that you become incredible, then it becomes hard to argue against it.

Armstrong got most of his heat because he was vindictive and abusive toward his accusers (who were only telling the truth). If he'd have just stuck to "no comment" and eventually come clean, I suspect there'd be no ill will.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Of course he got bigger when he hit his physical prime. Nearly everyone does.

Why didn't that happen in the 70s and 80s?

[Rijo's Ghost]

Why didn't that happen in the 70s and 80s?

It did.

[westofyou]

Redszone science

[jojo]

I'm pretty sure humans have been growing for decades, maybe more.