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Thread: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

  1. #16
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    And, unlike Bonds, Bagwell is back to his slight build now that he is no longer playing.

    I have no idea if Bagwell used or not, but this isn't any kind if proof.

    Maybe instead of iron dude has become a runner? Or isn't working out at all?
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  3. #17
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Poor Jeff Bagwell. He made enough money ($128+ mill) in MLB that he can build his own Hall of Fame. Crying all the way to the bank. And in his Hall he should induct Bonds, Clemens, Canseco, McGwire, Manny, Pettitte, Sosa and numerous other users. He played smack dab in the middle of the STEROID ERA. Think he was clean? Got swampland for ya to purchase... step right on up. Do I blame him? No. I would have done it too if I was in his position. And I believe Canseco when he claims most were doing it.

    I am OK with those who believe the steroid users should get into the Hall. I am OK with those who say they shouldn't. Because the Hall has been a joke/sham for quite some time IMO. Used to love it and read books about the players in it in my youth. As an adult it seems like nothing more than a way for the rich ex-players to make more money. And I wonder if that is the most important reason for some to get inducted.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  4. #18
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Poor Jeff Bagwell. He made enough money ($128+ mill) in MLB that he can build his own Hall of Fame. Crying all the way to the bank. And in his Hall he should induct Bonds, Clemens, Canseco, McGwire, Manny, Pettitte, Sosa and numerous other users. He played smack dab in the middle of the STEROID ERA. Think he was clean? Got swampland for ya to purchase... step right on up. Do I blame him? No. I would have done it too if I was in his position. And I believe Canseco when he claims most were doing it.

    I am OK with those who believe the steroid users should get into the Hall. I am OK with those who say they shouldn't. Because the Hall has been a joke/sham for quite some time IMO. Used to love it and read books about the players in it in my youth. As an adult it seems like nothing more than a way for the rich ex-players to make more money. And I wonder if that is the most important reason for some to get inducted.
    You're begrudging the modern player the fact that they've played since Free Agency became the reality. The fact is, the owners held all the cards for the majority of professional baseball history and players finally have the ability to be paid commensurate with their talent. And now you're going to yell at them to get off your lawn?
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  6. #19
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    You're begrudging the modern player the fact that they've played since Free Agency became the reality. The fact is, the owners held all the cards for the majority of professional baseball history and players finally have the ability to be paid commensurate with their talent. And now you're going to yell at them to get off your lawn?
    I'm assuming he's saying let's not throw a pity party for people that got incredibly rich by cheating.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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  8. #20
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Jeff Bagwell was one of the smartest players that I ever had the privilege to watch on a daily basis.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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  10. #21
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I'm assuming he's saying let's not throw a pity party for people that got incredibly rich by cheating.
    Ah, I see. I hadn't read much of this in that vein. There's no question in my mind that baseball created a horrible mess, turning a blind eye, and players who came through this era are paying the price for MLB needing to save itself from its labor debacles, as I noted previously.
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  12. #22
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Thomas and Bagwell should both be in the Hall of Fame.
    I do not ignore PEDs use in my own personal ranking of players, which is one reason why Barry Bonds will never be my choice as the greatest hitter or leftfielder of all time, and why Roger Clemens will never be my choice as the greatest pitcher ever, even though their raw numbers would give them arguments....but at this point I would not make PEDs use (or any other character issue for that matter) an absolute bar to the HOF. The owners and the players union and the media all turned their backs and allowed the PEDs era to happen, and in a few years Bud Selig will join Bowie Kuhn as a member of the HOF, so go ahead and let Bonds, Clemens, et al in.
    Did Bagwell juice? Maybe. It is just speculation and not enough in my opinion to keep him out.
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  13. #23
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    I shocked there are still people who care that guys used roids.
    "The guy I think could be really good in center is Adam Dunn. If someone asked me if Dunn could be a center fielder for the next 10 years, if he started working on it, no one could explain to me why he couldn’t do it." - Brad Kullman

  14. #24
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Bagwell fits the profile of a steroid user. If he is clean I don't feel sorry for him. Baseball knew they had a problem going on, the players knew who was using, and they turned a blind eye to everything.

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  16. #25
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Both were incredibly good hitters. I am absolutely positive that Bagwell will have more trouble than Thomas in terms of getting votes because of the steroid suspicions.
    I get it for guys who tested positive. I can understand the hesitation by the voters. But guys who've never even been close to guilty?!? Just because they have pumped up bodies? I feel bad for those guys. Bagwell, Biggio & Thomas should certainly go in ASAP.
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  17. #26
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    Doug, were you around when Bagwell came up? He weighed about a buck fifty, soaking wet. And immediately bulked up to become one of the more-muscular players in the game. And, unlike Bonds, Bagwell is back to his slight build now that he is no longer playing.

    A lot of HOF voters think he used, as do many of his contemporaries, as do I. And you know what? I don't blame him. Baseball basically condoned PEDs in those days.
    I personally don't think he did, but I understand the doubters. Bagwell was a well known workout freak. It was introduced to him during his rookie year. He'd never really worked out with weights before then. He fell in love with it and became a complete and utter gym-rat. IMO that alone explains the rapid change in his body.
    2014 predictions:
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    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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    Hamilton ROY & GG

  18. #27
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    Agree with Norm on Bagwell here.

    As for Thomas, I don't see how he gets left out. Guy was as good a hitter as you could ever want to see in his prime. Really the guy I think of first when it comes to the new breed of slugging guys with a great OBP. And he was always big. Not suspicious of him at all.
    I personally don't think Thomas used, nor do I care. But anyone who played college football in the 80's can be viewed with suspicion.

  19. #28
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post


    Nope. Let's put that to bed.
    Yep, even then he had the big forearms. The working out just emphasized it.
    2014 predictions:
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    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  20. #29
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Bagwell fits the profile of a steroid user. If he is clean I don't feel sorry for him. Baseball knew they had a problem going on, the players knew who was using, and they turned a blind eye to everything.
    Laughable. if he's innocent you don't feel sorry for him... awesome.

    Baseball knew it had a problem, yet as a fan you came back to the well again and again right?

    Ya know blind eye and all that.

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  22. #30
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: How good were Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell?

    Both deserve the HOF. Bagwell certainly fits the physical profile of a steriod user. But I haven't seen any definite link to him with steriod use like we have Bonds,McGwire,Clemons etc... This is just a tough era for HOF voters. I don't which way I would vote for these guys.
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