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Thread: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

  1. #46
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    I always laughed at how Sparky described Kapler, "He has the body of a Greek goddess."
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  3. #47
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Hal Morris
    Ron Villone
    Denny Neagle
    Todd Williams
    Mike Stanton

    Those would the Reds who are junkies
    They obviously needed bigger doses
    Win the Division

  4. #48
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    I honestly don't see why Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, the gambling rule is in place for a good reason. But, the Hall of Fame won't have the hits leader, the HR leader, one of the greatest pitchers ever etc.

    He should be in, for the same reason the steroids guys should be in. What he did sucked as a person, but his accomplishments as a player are important.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  6. #49
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I still struggle to understand why people think a guy should be in the HOF when everyone knew the consequences for betting on baseball.

    Put him in after he dies to honor his accomplishments.
    Because that argument is basically just a more verbose version of saying "because that's the way it is."

    Well, the way it is, is stupid. Why is the Hall of Fame about moralizing in the first place? It should be about the best players to have ever played, period.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  7. #50
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    One guy broke a rule that he knew would get him banned from the game if he was caught. Other guys broke a rule where there was no punishment on the books at all until 2004 (I think it was 2004) and when a punishment was put in the books, it was not being banned from baseball until your third strike.
    But why is getting banned from the game equivalent to getting banned from the hall? It's quite honestly a completely arbitrary distinction.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  8. #51
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I honestly don't see why Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, the gambling rule is in place for a good reason. But, the Hall of Fame won't have the hits leader, the HR leader, one of the greatest pitchers ever etc.

    He should be in, for the same reason the steroids guys should be in. What he did sucked as a person, but his accomplishments as a player are important.
    I agree. If I'm going to the Hall of Fame, I want to see it honor the game's great players. Those include Rose, Bonds, and Clemens. Without them, the Hall isn't complete.
    This is the Cal Ripkin Jr. of typos.

    If you ask me to join your fantasy baseball league and I select Legolas in the first round, don't be angry at me. It's not my fault I've read up on the players and you haven't.

  9. #52
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Start a second hall, with black jack
    Go Gators!

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  11. #53
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    But why is getting banned from the game equivalent to getting banned from the hall? It's quite honestly a completely arbitrary distinction.
    They changed the rules after Pete was banned. IMO as a way to punish Pete Rose for the death of Bart Giamatti. For those who do not know Mr. Giamatti was the commissioner when Pete was banned. Yes, Pete agreed to the ban from baseball. Eight days after the ban Mr. Giamatti died from a massive heart attack at the age of 51. I am sure the Pete situation was stressful on Mr. Giamatti despite being commissioner for less than 6 months when he passed away. However, Mr. Giamatti was also a long time heavy smoker and I am sure that contributed much more to his passing than the Pete ban. Anyhow Pay Vincent took over as commissioner after Mr. Giamatti's death and was a leader in changing the Hall eligibility rules (people on the banned list could not be on the Hall ballot). Mr. Vincent was good friends with Mr. Giamatti.

    Pete got what he deserved... the permanent ban from baseball. But changing the Hall rule after the ban seems unfair. Perhaps the voters would not have elected Rose, but we will never know.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  12. #54
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    They changed the rules after Pete was banned. IMO as a way to punish Pete Rose for the death of Bart Giamatti. For those who do not know Mr. Giamatti was the commissioner when Pete was banned. Yes, Pete agreed to the ban from baseball. Eight days after the ban Mr. Giamatti died from a massive heart attack at the age of 51. I am sure the Pete situation was stressful on Mr. Giamatti despite being commissioner for less than 6 months when he passed away. However, Mr. Giamatti was also a long time heavy smoker and I am sure that contributed much more to his passing than the Pete ban. Anyhow Pay Vincent took over as commissioner after Mr. Giamatti's death and was a leader in changing the Hall eligibility rules (people on the banned list could not be on the Hall ballot). Mr. Vincent was good friends with Mr. Giamatti.

    Pete got what he deserved... the permanent ban from baseball. But changing the Hall rule after the ban seems unfair. Perhaps the voters would not have elected Rose, but we will never know.
    Yeah the baseball ban, that makes sense. He should've always been banned from managing and what have you.

    The Hall of Fame ban, eh. It does in fact seem like a personal move on their part.


    The Hall isn't even officially connected with the league anyway, right?
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  13. #55
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    The Hall isn't even officially connected with the league anyway, right?
    You are correct. Although we know the powers of MLB have certain powers. The Hall calls itself an independent, non-profit educational institution.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  14. #56
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Excellent and thoughtful article by Joe Poz on Pete and the HOF:HERE.

    For me, the killing question is this: Should Rose be forgiven by baseball at some point here? You could argue yes, he’s served his time and he was a brilliant player who brought much joy to the game. You could argue no, permanent means permanent and Rose has not earned forgiveness. Both arguments have their merits and their drawbacks.
    __________________
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  15. #57
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Start a second hall, with black jack
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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  17. #58
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I honestly don't see why Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, the gambling rule is in place for a good reason. But, the Hall of Fame won't have the hits leader, the HR leader, one of the greatest pitchers ever etc.

    He should be in, for the same reason the steroids guys should be in. What he did sucked as a person, but his accomplishments as a player are important.
    His accomplishments are already in the HOF!!! He doesn't deserve a plaque!!!

  18. #59
    Your killin' me Smalls! StillFunkyB's Avatar
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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Start a second hall, with black jack
    And Happy Hour specials on Vitamin B12 Protein Shakes....

    "And the fact that watching him pitch is like having someone poop on your soul." FCB on Gary Majewski

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    Re: Kapler: Rose Should Not Be In Hall Of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    One guy broke a rule that he knew would get him banned from the game if he was caught. Other guys broke a rule where there was no punishment on the books at all until 2004 (I think it was 2004) and when a punishment was put in the books, it was not being banned from baseball until your third strike.

    I dont think anyone disagrees with what you posted Doug.....I agree with the basis of that argument as well.....but for all the steroid users and drug abusers and wife beaters out there that are in the hall or will be in the hall, I think its more of a "whats right and whats wrong" deal......

    being voted into the Hall Of Fame is a luxury and a not something that is written in the rule book as being if you log this stat line then you make the HOF.....the HOF votes on players because its subject to so many more variables than just a stat line. True taking steroids was not in the rule book as a rule that would get you abolished from Baseball and the HOF but it was still wrong and still illegal.....Using cocaine or other drugs, painkillers or abusing alcohol or just being a piece of crap of a citizen are all things that should go into ones vote......and I am sure some voters could care less, but others do care and they are allowed to use whatever variables they want when casting their vote...........I think the average fan of Baseball just wants voters to hold these players more accountable for their actions than just that stat line.....these players are making millions and millions and living high on the hog because us fans by jerseys and buy tickets and take our families to games and we make it a point to watch the games on TV when we cant make it to the game which helps ratings which helps teams get more money from TV deals.......so these players are huge parts of our lives, using illegal drugs and/or being an idiot of a person should be counted against you when voting takes place.........the issue here is, there are several of these idiots in the HOF right now who have done drugs, beat their wives, cheated the game, and was just a idiot in general......we cant take back their spot in the Hall but we can try and make sure others like them dont make it in....

    with that said, I think the average fan can agree that Pete has paid his debt, putting him in the Hall now will at least give him a few years of fame and allow him to enjoy his baseball records.....putting him in the Hall will also bring all his negative traits to the surface and he will have to deal with it all over again....but I think that Pete would be fine with it....he appears to want younger players to learn from his mistakes so I see no harm in putting Petes name on the voters ballot and letting them decide......

    I think when the rule makers were making the rules for baseball and they put the betting on baseball rule in the books, I dont think steroids were a issue like they are today or they would have put cheating for records in the rule book right next to the gambling column......

    Doug, I see your point and I agree.....but I just dont think rule makers could foresee that steroids would ever be what they are today....in fact, back then I dont think it was even known what steroids do there surely wasnt as many designer steroids like there is today so how would they have known back then how huge it would be today? Baseballs players union is so strong that trying to kick a player out for life for failing a steroid test the first time would never pass.....players union will never allow that.....I dont think the players union was as big or strong back when rules about betting were implemented....just saying...


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