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Thread: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

  1. #46
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BungleBengals View Post
    That is what my argument was from the beginning. If Boyd is there in the 3rd or 4th round, then you take him. The first 2 or 3 rounds should be used to address the bigger needs like CB, DL, and OL depending on Collins and MJ. Draft Boyd in 4th, let Dalton play out his contract with Boyd developing on the bench. If Dalton doesn't improve, then you are not scrambling for a QB come next year.

    If Boyd is taken, then draft Murray in the 5th or 6th round. His injury will keep him under the radar and he has that repertoire with AJ that could blossom into a deadly combination.
    I would seriously doubt that Boyd goes in the 3rd or 4th round. I don't know if a team is going to take a chance on him that early unless they think its a real possibility that he will start.

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  3. #47
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohayou View Post
    You mean he isn't what YOU'RE looking for.

    I can't believe you two are actually bashing his Orange Bowl performance. He finished with more all-purpose yards than the ENTIRE Ohio State offense. What a scrub, right?

    Listen, I didn't say draft him in the 1st freakin' round. If he's there in the 4th, and the Bengals select him, are you really gonna start flipping over tables?
    I mean you're completely twisting my words. I said he's a decent prospect and I've said I don't give a rat's hoot about the NFL. But racking up yards against an awful Ohio State defense by throwing screen passes to Sammy Watkins while still managing to throw two interceptions just doesn't impress me...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    Manziel's character issues are a media creation. He doesn't get in trouble with the law. Sure he's living the life, and it's not a life I would choose to live, but he's not doing any harm.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...rrest/2518037/

  5. #49
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Too much of what he does on the field won't work in the NFL, where defensive linemen and linebackers are two steps faster and where the DBs are bigger and better at staying on their men.
    For me it's two words. Arm. Strength.

    There are certain throws in the nfl a QB has to make regardless of whether he can go all Fran on a pass rush.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #50
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    A lot of actual football people are starting to say that Manziel's play will translate. Here in Jax there's a big section of the fanbase clamoring for him, and called him Johnny Jaguar.

    I'd be very surprised on May 8th if one of 4 people, are not holding up a Jags jersey: Clowney, Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles.

    I haven't seen Metteneberger listed as a late round flyer yet here but many places do.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

  7. #51
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    For me it's two words. Arm. Strength.

    There are certain throws in the nfl a QB has to make regardless of whether he can go all Fran on a pass rush.
    Right.

    At the same time, it can be overblown. The way I look at it is, there's a certain baseline of arm strength a QB needs or else he just can't play in the NFL. The windows are pretty small and he has to be able to get the ball there in time. But once that baseline is met, other things become more important to success: accuracy, quick release, the ability to throw accurately from weird arm slots and off the back foot because teams WILL get pressure.

    And above all, it's the stuff that happens above the neck -- call it vision, anticipation or what have you, but it's just the ability to understand what's happening in front of you and get the right answer in real time. Coaching helps but some guys have it and some don't.

    To me, Manziel is way above average on all the other stuff I mentioned. So it's a matter of whether his arm is good enough. I think it'll be average at best, but acceptable, especially in certain systems. Could be wrong.
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  8. #52
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    A lot of actual football people are starting to say that Manziel's play will translate. Here in Jax there's a big section of the fanbase clamoring for him, and called him Johnny Jaguar.

    I'd be very surprised on May 8th if one of 4 people, are not holding up a Jags jersey: Clowney, Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles.

    I haven't seen Metteneberger listed as a late round flyer yet here but many places do.
    Of those four, I'd go with Bortles.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  9. #53
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    You're right. That's my mistake. But in this case Manziel was actually breaking up a potential fight. Then the guy started to fight him. Not using good judgment with the people he was hanging out with, but he wasn't looking for trouble either.

  10. #54
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I didn't see much improvement in Manziel from Y1 to Y2 as far as being an NFL prospect. His big plays are almost entirely a creation of athleticism and big-bodied WRs.

    There are QBs who can make that work in the NFL, but only because they learn to be successful in the pocket as well.
    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...back-conundrum

    Manziel improved his arm strength from his freshman year. Check out the article above. Manziel actually throws more deep passes than the other top college QBs in the this year's draft class, and he's more accurate. Even when you only account for passes when he stayed in the pocket, his downfield accuracy is awesome. And he's also facing significantly better defenses than Bortles, Bridgewater, or Carr.

    Manziel is a very good QB without his running ability. Incredibly accurate, and enough arm strength to make it in the pros. Watch this throw. 50 yard in the air and he didn't even step into it. (I don't know how to embed videos, so if anybody knows how, I would appreciate if you could let me know. Thanks).

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10225139

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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    You're right. That's my mistake. But in this case Manziel was actually breaking up a potential fight. Then the guy started to fight him. Not using good judgment with the people he was hanging out with, but he wasn't looking for trouble either.
    So that was his story. And I am sure the fake IDs were so he could vote too huh? He was running with a guy that was using racial slurs in a fight. ******bags usually run with ******bags.

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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by indyscott View Post
    So that was his story. And I am sure the fake IDs were so he could vote too huh? He was running with a guy that was using racial slurs in a fight. ******bags usually run with ******bags.
    Because Manziel is the only player in this draft class with a fake ID who drinks underage... I'm not saying it's not an issue, but I think that this case is probably pretty low on the list of concerns for NFL teams. They know that pretty much every player they are looking at drank and partied in college.

    People talk about his off-field "issues", but they are only issues if they affect the team. His teammates and coaches love him.

  13. #57
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    Because Manziel is the only player in this draft class with a fake ID who drinks underage... I'm not saying it's not an issue, but I think that this case is probably pretty low on the list of concerns for NFL teams. They know that pretty much every player they are looking at drank and partied in college.

    People talk about his off-field "issues", but they are only issues if they affect the team. His teammates and coaches love him.
    I dont buy the "everybody does it" stuff. I never had one. i am in my 40s and never been arrested. And what coaches or team mates will come out and say they dont like him?

  14. #58
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Johnny Football a TOP 5 pick??!!

    Yeah, you might have a point with the "everybody does it" if he played another position, but that argument holds a lot less water for a QB...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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