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Thread: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

  1. #31
    Who wants a mustache ride Ohayou's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    - Jay Bruce flailing at a low breaking pitch multiple times in the same PA
    This x1000.
    Choo got it, dude.

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  3. #32
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    I find using FIP as a standard for frustration odd anyway. Leake had an incredibly productive season that exceeded my wildest expectations. Just because FIP says it may not continue doesn't mean it didn't happen.
    I'm not a huge fan of FIP either. I can see it as a useful tool.
    Want to compare Leake and Latos? Ok, FIP is one thing you can use.

    But when I look at the year Leake had.. ERA under 4.00, 14-7 record. That's pretty darn good for a guy that most people didn't even want in the rotation in spring training. I recall people wanting to demote him for Cingrani too.
    Either course of action would've been an incredible waste of a useful asset and killed Leake's trade value.

    Leake will always be unappreciated by some, just as Arroyo was because of FIP. If Leake or Arroyo is smart enough to leverage the Reds' defense, that's a good thing, isn't it? (That seems to be the criticism against them).
    Honestly, if Leake was not in the rotation in 2003, and Chapman was there instead, we might've missed the playoffs. Washington was only 4 games behind us. Sure, wins are not a true indicator of pitching talent, but Leake had a +7 win differential in his record. Leake gave us 192 IP (Chapman wouldn't have). Reds were 18-13 in games he started. Not too shabby at all.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Crumbley (01-19-2014)

  5. #33
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Todd Frazier chasing pitches in the LH Batters box gets my vote. I can easily see his performance dropping again in 2014.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    HokieRed (01-17-2014), Old school 1983 (01-17-2014)

  7. #34
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    I find using FIP as a standard for frustration odd anyway. Leake had an incredibly productive season that exceeded my wildest expectations. Just because FIP says it may not continue doesn't mean it didn't happen.
    I think that's it. I don't have any real confidence that Leake will continue to pitch the way he did last season, but I was pleasantly surprised by his performance in 2013, which is the opposite of being frustrated. He was one of the bright spots on the team.

  8. #35
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Title should be renamed "Five most frustrating... after Ondrusek."
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  9. #36
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    Junkhead, please explain how wRC is calculated?
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...94#post3020594

  10. #37
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    I'm on Prozac nothing frustrates me
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Wonderful Monds (01-17-2014)

  12. #38
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Ok, but doesn't that mean that Leake didn't frustrate you?
    He got his 1.25 WHIP last year. He's a great #5 starter. Unless you are frustrated with the Reds for keeping him on the team, I don't see why anyone would be frustrated with Leake.
    Seems like he met your expectations at least, based on the metrics you provided.

    Me, I'm happy with his run prevention last year.
    What Leake did last year wasn't preventing runs. in fact, most of his numbers suggest he should have allowed more runs. I give more credit to his defense bailing him out than him bearing down and preventing the baserunners he put on from scoring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    I find using FIP as a standard for frustration odd anyway. Leake had an incredibly productive season that exceeded my wildest expectations. Just because FIP says it may not continue doesn't mean it didn't happen.
    See I don't believe he was as productive as people think. As I stated, 2011 was a better year by far, but most would say 2013 was. his numbers are flukish like that, and he's as likely to post a 4.50 ERA this season as a 3.50 one.

    My frustration isn't with Leake at all. It's with the perception that he is more than he is. I mean I've seen posts comparing him to Strasburg! ridiculous.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #39
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    My frustration isn't with Leake at all. It's with the perception that he is more than he is. I mean I've seen posts comparing him to Strasburg! ridiculous.
    Strasburg (career 24 OPS+) wishes he could hit like Mike Leake (63)!
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  14. #40
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    What Leake did last year wasn't preventing runs. in fact, most of his numbers suggest he should have allowed more runs. I give more credit to his defense bailing him out than him bearing down and preventing the baserunners he put on from scoring.



    See I don't believe he was as productive as people think. As I stated, 2011 was a better year by far, but most would say 2013 was. his numbers are flukish like that, and he's as likely to post a 4.50 ERA this season as a 3.50 one.

    My frustration isn't with Leake at all. It's with the perception that he is more than he is. I mean I've seen posts comparing him to Strasburg! ridiculous.
    It's true Leake is no Strasburg, but he's no scrub either. He's a pretty solid 3-4 starter.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  15. #41
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Five Most Frustrating Players on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    What Leake did last year wasn't preventing runs. in fact, most of his numbers suggest he should have allowed more runs. I give more credit to his defense bailing him out than him bearing down and preventing the baserunners he put on from scoring.
    I'm just going to have to disagree with you.
    I look at his results, and he did a very good job.
    Count up his quality starts.
    Let's say a pitcher gives up 2 runs in 7 innings.
    Does it really matter how many people he struck out?
    Does it matter if it was two solo HR or 4 doubles that led to the 2 runs?
    We went through this for years with Arroyo, all the doomsayers saying Arroyo was going to implode at any moment, yet it never happened.
    Probably over half the board wanted Leake out of the rotation in the beginning of 2013 (esp after his slow start). All Leake does is post a 14-7 record and a sub 4.00 ERA.. That was awesome. Doesn't mean he will repeat it every year, but it's awesome. Call it flukish if you want, but "fluke/luck" seems to be the last resort to explain something that is an exception to the stats. Pretty weak argument.

    Leake may not be as good next year, but I bet he's closer to 3.50 ERA than to a 4.50 ERA if he's healthy. (So I'm picking around a 4.00 ERA or better)

    Now I agree with you, he's no Strasburg. He's not an ace, but he's a very valuable contributor who would be difficult to replace. Chapman could not replace him in the rotation and give similar production.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    redsfanmia (01-18-2014)


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