2014 Bengals Discussion

[Big Red Smokey]

Awesome to see Jack Hoffman is there

[Big Red Smokey]

Jason Campbell is not good at football

[wolfboy]

Jason Campbell is not good at football

I got fair warning a few weeks ago from a Bears fan. Optimistic Bengals fan (me) didn't want to listen. That pick-six tonight was terrible. Nonetheless, the Bears ended up with Jordan Palmer - we still won that trade.

[Kingspoint]

That pick-six tonight was terrible.

Which one?

Kidding aside, while Campbell didn't look too well yesterday, he'll be a solid enough backup, something Dalton has never had. In addition, he has plenty of information to assist Dalton and Matt Scott in their developments as NFL Quarterbacks. (McCarron might glean something, too, while he spends the season on the I.R.)

[Sea Ray]

Which one?

Kidding aside, while Campbell didn't look too well yesterday, he'll be a solid enough backup, something Dalton has never had. In addition, he has plenty of information to assist Dalton and Matt Scott in their developments as NFL Quarterbacks. (McCarron might glean something, too, while he spends the season on the I.R.)

I don't know about that. Jason Campbell looked slow both mentally and physically out there. He has a hitch in his release which reminds me of Byron Leftwich although not quite that bad. Those pick 6's were "rookie-like". He never was good NFL QB so I don't know if has been is a proper term but I don't know about that guy. I know it's early. Any word on his injury?

[The DARK]

About the Dalton contract... I like how not only is there so little guaranteed money (17M), but it all gets paid right now when there's a gaping maw of salary cap space before the Green/Burfict extensions. In a sense, it's like having a team option on him every year for the next 6 years. At the same time though, if he gets cut next season or down the line, he still got a nice payday up front and isn't locked into an unfavorable contract. His agent gets to brag about the "big number" as well. Seems like a win for all sides.

I wonder if we're in a position to trade one of our cornerbacks. We've got some really solid depth...
-Hall is pro-bowl caliber and apparently hasn't lost a step in coming back from injury
-Darqueze Dennard is amazing for a rookie, by all accounts
-Terence Newman is a reliable, league average veteran who could easily start for any number of teams
-Adam Jones is still one of the best pure slot CBs in the league
-Dre Kirkpatrick has apparently really made strides. He always struck me as the kind of guy who needs playing time to improve, and I think we're finally seeing that.

[bucksfan2]

I don't know about that. Jason Campbell looked slow both mentally and physically out there. He has a hitch in his release which reminds me of Byron Leftwich although not quite that bad. Those pick 6's were "rookie-like". He never was good NFL QB so I don't know if has been is a proper term but I don't know about that guy. I know it's early. Any word on his injury?

Jason Campbell was playing in his first game of the season in a new system. I don't take much if any from the first few preseason games. I think he is a reliable backup, probably the best the Bengals have had in years. He was on track to get the Raiders into the playoffs until he broke his collar bone. He isn't a guy who can put the team on his back and win games, but in a pinch can he win a game or two? That is what you want out of your backup.

[wolfboy]

Jason Campbell was playing in his first game of the season in a new system. I don't take much if any from the first few preseason games. I think he is a reliable backup, probably the best the Bengals have had in years. He was on track to get the Raiders into the playoffs until he broke his collar bone. He isn't a guy who can put the team on his back and win games, but in a pinch can he win a game or two? That is what you want out of your backup.

When I saw your post, I looked up Campbell's stats to see if I was being unfair to him (I was). But in the process of doing so, I found this gem of an interwebs article: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...currently.html

[bucksfan2]

When I saw your post, I looked up Campbell's stats to see if I was being unfair to him (I was). But in the process of doing so, I found this gem of an interwebs article: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...currently.html

Oh year I remember reading that article. It is a gem to say the least.

[Kingspoint]

My biggest concern with the Bengals is the loss of Mike Zimmer. There was no discipline on the team before Zimmer arrived. Marvin Lewis is a horrible Head Coach, always guaranteed to having his team less prepared the more time he has to prepare them (doesn't know how to keep them focused as the players have more free time, in addition to Marvin flat out being dirt-poor at game-planning and in-game management).

After Zimmer arrived, the Defense was disciplined. "Some" of it rubbed off on the rest of the team on both Offense and Special Teams.

With Zimmer gone, it's back to Marvin as the team's leading disciplinarian. That ain't gonna cut it.

Paul Guenther can be given all the praise in the world, but he's still an unproven rookie Coordinator, who doesn't come close to commanding the respect that Zimmer commanded with his six years of Defensive Coordinator experience with the Cowboys and one (or two) with the Falcons before taking over the Bengals. Six years as Secondary Coach for the Cowboys during their Championship years also gave him a respect around the league that was well-established before he became a Bengal. Guenther has none of that experience...not even from his fellow Coaches.

That fiasco against the Chiefs might have been pre-season, but it stunk of an undisciplined group of individuals. It wasn't just the 365 return yards given up, but it was all over the Defense and Offense, too. Letting a TE go untouched for 75 yards down the middle is not a disciplined Defense. Players were continually out of position and routinely getting over-powered because of poor technique. There was no symmetry.

There was a lot of good things to take away from the Chiefs game, but pre-season is all about concentrating on the things that need to be worked on, not concentrating on the things that went well. And, for this game, the discipline of the players flat out stunk. The Coaches have more work to do about their own jobs than the players have.

For game 2, I want to see if the Coaches learned anything after Week 1, or if they're going to try to blame the players, thinking they don't have to do things differently themselves. I want to see the players showing energy and discipline like their jobs depended on every play. I saw that in Minnesota this weekend, as Zimmer took last year's 32nd-ranked Defense and not only turned them into a disciplined and energetic group. Oakland didn't even cross the Fifty until midway through the 2nd Quarter. They didn't score until there was 1:25 left in the game. Minnesota's Special Teams were on fire, and their Offense, save for a few instances, played with intensity and discipline. There were a lot of mistakes that the Vikings need corrected, but if you were a Vikings fan, you felt the same way Bengals' fans felt the first time we saw the results that Zimmer brought to our own Defense. I had doubts about Zimmer making the transition to Head Coach, and he was clearly on Cloud-9 this weekend looking at times like a deer-in-headlights (it was clear that at many times he had blank moments in his head where he felt like he should have been doing something, but that he didn't know what to do), but his team played inspired in all three areas, Offense, Defense and Special Teams. And, that's what you want. The Bengals did not play inspired this weekend.

[Hoosier Red]

My biggest concern with the Bengals is the loss of Mike Zimmer. There was no discipline on the team before Zimmer arrived. Marvin Lewis is a horrible Head Coach, always guaranteed to having his team less prepared the more time he has to prepare them (doesn't know how to keep them focused as the players have more free time, in addition to Marvin flat out being dirt-poor at game-planning and in-game management).

THat's certainly a perception that's out there, but I don't know if the perception holds up when measured against the facts.

In the five years prior to Zimmer's arrival, the Bengals were 42-39 overall. In games with less than a week to prepare, they were 1-5. (1-0 on 4 days prep time and 0-5 on 6 days of prep time.)
When getting exactly 7 days, the Bengals were 34-25. They were 4-7 when playing with between 8 and 14 days between games. This does include going 1-4 on either 13 or 14 days of prep time.
The Bengals were also 3-2 on Week 1 which I decided not to count as having any specific prep days.

I'll go back tonight and look to see if the Bengals records with the various days rest changed after Zimmer arrived or not, but there's nothing in the initial look that suggests the Bengals struggle with more time off between games as opposed to less.

Now, none of this refutes your claim that Marvin Lewis is a poor coach, but perhaps for different reasons than you propose.

[Kingspoint]

Now, none of this refutes your claim that Marvin Lewis is a poor coach, but perhaps for different reasons than you propose.

I really enjoyed watching "Hard Knocks". It gave a lot insight to a lot of things.

[Hoosier Red]

I really enjoyed watching "Hard Knocks". It gave a lot insight to a lot of things.

I enjoyed it too, but I don't think I'd take too many insights from something so heavily edited and with an interest in building narratives.

[Oxilon]

Now, none of this refutes your claim that Marvin Lewis is a poor coach, but perhaps for different reasons than you propose.

All he'd have to do is point to Marvin's playoff record during his 10+ year tenure year.

[Hoosier Red]

All he'd have to do is point to Marvin's playoff record during his 10+ year tenure year.

meh, getting to the playoffs 5 times in 10 years with a franchise that couldn't play dead before he showed up counters that to a certain extent. If he's a bad coach, I'd think it would be easier to spot over 176 games rather than 5.