2014 Bengals Discussion

[Kingspoint]

Sea Ray, this might have something to do with it....his Pro Day on Thursday will be important for his draft position...

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments...

NFL Films' Greg Cosell stated on the Ross Tucker Podcast that Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's ability to drive the football with arm strength is a "concern for a lot of people."

Cosell is tight with a number of NFL coaches and typically has spot-on info. "When you watch Johnny Manziel on film," Cosell said, "when he had to make throws that were at the intermediate or deeper levels -- I'm talking about throws that required a little bit of arm strength -- he had to put his entire body into making those throws. And that was a concern. Because in the NFL you won't get clean pockets, you won't get the same kind of functional space you get in college. And he had to work so hard to throw the football down the field, that I'd be anxious to see how he throws (at his Pro Day). And my guess is they'll structure his Pro Day tomorrow to try to show that he can drive the football. Because that is a concern for a lot of people." We'll have another Manziel post after Thursday's workout.

Source: Ross Tucker Podcast

Here you go, SeaRay...

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

The Bears and Browns were the only two teams absent from Johnny Manziel's Thursday Pro Day.

They missed a show, as Manziel impressed as he threw in shoulder pads. Manziel made a believer of noted skeptic Ron Jaworski, prompting ESPN's Jaws to proclaim he'd now be comfortable selecting the former Heisman Trophy winner in the first three rounds. NFL teams' opinions are far less malleable, but Johnny Football did what he needed to do on Thursday. Questions about Manziel's ability to drive the ball are going to persist, but he only needs one team to fall in love in the first round. The Browns' absence from Manziel's Pro Day is notable, but they're expected to conduct a private workout with the A&M signal caller.

Source: Albert Breer on Twitter


also...

NFL Network's Mike Mayock was impressed with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's Pro Day.

Pro Days rarely change the opinion of an experienced evaluator, but can highlight concerns. Mayock said that wasn't the case with Manziel. "He can make every throw mechanically," Mayock said. "His arm strength is on par with that of (UCF QB Blake) Bortles. He had that beautiful spontaneity on the run and he's confirmed many things. He's not opening up questions for me like (Louisville QB Teddy) Bridgewater did." Johnny Football is receiving universally positive reviews for his performance in College Station, but it's a bigger story when a player doesn't ace his Pro Day, like Bridgewater.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

[Kingspoint]

BJGE is still under contract. He's going to be on the team. While Marvin Lewis likes to think Gio is going to be another Ray Rice, it's just not going to happen. Gio is not a player you give the ball to 320 times a year. His 220 touches last season was the correct amount, but with more of the touches distributed in space instead of handoffs between the tackles. BJGE for 100 touches on the year is fine...3rd-and-1, 4th-and-1, breathing spells, injuries. But, a true #2 RB is needed who isn't a liability catching the ball (that rules out Blount), who can run between the tackles at better than 3.6 yards per carry. We should have obtained Chris Ivory last season, but once again, cheapness of Mike Brown overruled common sense. Ivory averaged 4.2 per carry behind the absolute worst run-blocking O-line in the entire NFL and with a set of QB's that put 8 in-the-box at all times. The Ivory ship sailed, as did the James Stark ship, which sailed right by this season. Again, philosophy rules...cheapness.

I could go on, and on, and on, and I agree with most of what you say. Just repeating it in different ways.

....and the Moreno ship just sailed by, too. (signed a 1-yr deal with the Dolphins today) Could we have used a 26-year old, 5', 11", 220# RB who's averaged 4.1 ypc and 8.9 ypr over a career that's had 1002 touches through five seasons? He would have been the perfect complement to Gio., even moreso than James Stark. That's a lot of unproven faith going into Cedric Peerman and Rex Burkhead for a team supposedly dedicated to reinventing it's run-game. Sure looks like a lot of the same-old, same-old with BJGE getting again, way too many touches, or else overusing Gio Bernard.

[Yachtzee]

I've had my concerns about the Bengals' offense over the past few seasons, but at this point, I'm in "wait and see" mode to determine how things will work out with Hue Jackson as OC. I'm interested to see what steps he will take to improve the running game and I'm also interested to see if any adjustments are made with Dalton to shore up areas in which he has had problems. I think if they are able to improve the running game and provide more balance to the offense, we may see more "Good Andy" and less "Bad Andy." At least that's my hope, anyway.

[oregonred]

Still want Aaron Murray in the third round. The Dalton situation is going to be interesting. In the end I see the ever loyal Mikey overpaying for Dalton. To be fair this is a tough one, durable, a winner and solid yet not elite. Nor near-elite. Cook leaving is a good thing for Dalton, more concerned about the rest of the line. Especially the edges.

Will be an interesting draft which I keep forgetting has been moved back this year into early May to make May the "NFL Draft month".

[Sea Ray]

Here you go, SeaRay...

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

The Bears and Browns were the only two teams absent from Johnny Manziel's Thursday Pro Day.

Jaworski's comments:

he'd now be comfortable selecting the former Heisman Trophy winner in the first three rounds

Way to go out on a limb there, Ron. C'mon you're an expert! You can do better than that. There's all the difference in the world between top 5 overall and third rd...

[bucksfan2]

....and the Moreno ship just sailed by, too. (signed a 1-yr deal with the Dolphins today) Could we have used a 26-year old, 5', 11", 220# RB who's averaged 4.1 ypc and 8.9 ypr over a career that's had 1002 touches through five seasons? He would have been the perfect complement to Gio., even moreso than James Stark. That's a lot of unproven faith going into Cedric Peerman and Rex Burkhead for a team supposedly dedicated to reinventing it's run-game. Sure looks like a lot of the same-old, same-old with BJGE getting again, way too many touches, or else overusing Gio Bernard.

I think the Bengals have been AWFUL at developing a RB. They haven't had a HR threat (sans Bernard) since Corey Dillon, and haven't really had an above average back since Dillon. Rudi and Ced were solid backs, but not backs you were going to put in the top 10 or so in the league. I am surprised that they haven't found something, anything in the draft when it comes to RB. They tend to like guys who can play Special team. I am surprised that a guy like Boom Herron never really got chance at touches when BJGE can't run away from his shadow. Some teams (more blocking scheme) can pick guys up late in the draft or even UDFA and turn them into stars, the Bengals can't.

That said, the last think I want the Bengals to do is spend a big chunk of money on FA RB with warts. Or use an early draft pick for a guy who they don't project to have game breaking ability. Moreno is an interesting case, a guy who was a bust until Manning came around. Was his success because of Manning, the extra WR forcing the defense to play a lot in nickle or dime packages? I want the Bengals to do better at the RB position and think they can do a ton better than what BJGE is right now. If the Bengals go 60/40 or 70/30 next year with Bernard I don't have a problem with BJGE, if it is a 50/50 split then I have issues with that. Hopefully Hue can get things figured out.

[Kingspoint]

I think the Bengals have been AWFUL at developing a RB. They haven't had a HR threat (sans Bernard) since Corey Dillon, and haven't really had an above average back since Dillon. Rudi and Ced were solid backs, but not backs you were going to put in the top 10 or so in the league. I am surprised that they haven't found something, anything in the draft when it comes to RB. They tend to like guys who can play Special team. I am surprised that a guy like Boom Herron never really got chance at touches when BJGE can't run away from his shadow. Some teams (more blocking scheme) can pick guys up late in the draft or even UDFA and turn them into stars, the Bengals can't.

That said, the last think I want the Bengals to do is spend a big chunk of money on FA RB with warts. Or use an early draft pick for a guy who they don't project to have game breaking ability. Moreno is an interesting case, a guy who was a bust until Manning came around. Was his success because of Manning, the extra WR forcing the defense to play a lot in nickle or dime packages? I want the Bengals to do better at the RB position and think they can do a ton better than what BJGE is right now. If the Bengals go 60/40 or 70/30 next year with Bernard I don't have a problem with BJGE, if it is a 50/50 split then I have issues with that. Hopefully Hue can get things figured out.

When it comes to Moreno, I don't even consider his season with Manning. I like his body of work before Manning got there. He was used in some really odd situations where the situation in Denver was a complete mess with changing Offensive Coordinators, QB's coming in and out of the system, a poor set of Wide Receivers until 2012. Pretty hard to get any type of consistency there up to that point. Under Manning, he rarely faced more than 6 in the box, ranking something like 52 among all runningbacks with 150+ touches in that area. Pretty easy to run under those circumstances. However, his yards per carry and yards per catch were the same after Manning got there than before Manning got there. He can pass-protect very well. That's important, and you don't know if it's a run play or a pass play based on the fact that he's in the backfield, a concept seemingly foreign to the Bengals' brass, as their RB's have always been strictly run or pass.

[Kingspoint]

Still want Aaron Murray in the third round. The Dalton situation is going to be interesting. In the end I see the ever loyal Mikey overpaying for Dalton. To be fair this is a tough one, durable, a winner and solid yet not elite. Nor near-elite. Cook leaving is a good thing for Dalton, more concerned about the rest of the line. Especially the edges.

Will be an interesting draft which I keep forgetting has been moved back this year into early May to make May the "NFL Draft month".

I'd rather have Mettenberger with our 3rd Round pick.

[Kingspoint]

Thought since January that Bortles is going #1.

I should have said, that all along I thought Bortles would be the first QB taken. If Houston is unable to trade down, then I think they'll pull the trigger on Bortles.

[bucksfan2]

I'd rather have Mettenberger with our 3rd Round pick.

I don't see Aaron Murray getting drafted before the 6th or 7th round if at all.

I don't see the Bengals picking a QB in the 3rd and think Mettenberger will be gone before they start entertaining a backup. One thing to consider is you don't have to keep a 3rd QB on the active roster, would the Bengals be willing to hold a roster spot for a developmental QB? Metternberger would be swooped up quickly if they tried to put him on the practice squad.

[WrongVerb]

For RB, I think if Hyde is there in the 2nd, you've got to take him. Else a player like Terrance West, Andre Williams, or Jeremy Hill can be picked up later.

For QB, a big armed project with warts is one I'd like to see in round 5/6/7. Logan Thomas, Brett Smith, or even a real gamble like Casey Pachall.

Overall this is how I'd like to see the first four rounds go:

1st: Gilbert/Dennard/Fuller
2nd: Hyde/best DE on board
3rd: Turner/James/Bitonio/M. Martin/Swanson/best OL on the board
4th: K. Martin/best DE on the board/best big RB on the board

[Ohayou]

Logan Thomas, Brett Smith, or even a real gamble like Casey Pachall.

I really like Pachall, and I wouldn't mind using a late round pick on him, but I doubt he's going to be drafted at all. Some team will eventually sign him, though.

[WrongVerb]

I really like Pachall, and I wouldn't mind using a late round pick on him, but I doubt he's going to be drafted at all. Some team will eventually sign him, though.

From what I've read, he's got 3rd round or better tools, but a serious substance abuse problem that's holdng him back. Art Schlichter redux?

[Ohayou]

From what I've read, he's got 3rd round or better tools, but a serious substance abuse problem that's holdng him back. Art Schlichter redux?

Looking back at his 2011 season, if he hadn't gotten into trouble like he did, he could have seriously been the #1 overall pick I think.

[Kingspoint]

From what I've read, he's got 3rd round or better tools, but a serious substance abuse problem that's holdng him back. Art Schlichter redux?

I thought Schlichter was a gambler?