Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

[LoganBuck]

How would that be on Walt? He doesn't have a blank check from ownership. Plus Homer had a say in it too, you realize.

Walt is hinting that he wants to sign him long term. Walt wanted to acquire a middle of the order hitter or a leadoff guy this offseason. Walt publically said that they wanted to sign Shin Soo Choo. Walt went looking for trades at the last three trade deadlines. (In fairness he did get Broxton) Outside of Choo and Latos, when Walt says he is trying to get something publically, it rarely happens.

I stand by my prediction. The Reds work out a 1 year deal, Bailey hits free agency, and the Reds get a draft pick, and the fans blame Joey Votto. Not the guy who gives contracts out that hamstring his ability to acquire and retain actual talent.

[CySeymour]

Walt is hinting that he wants to sign him long term. Walt wanted to acquire a middle of the order hitter or a leadoff guy this offseason. Walt publically said that they wanted to sign Shin Soo Choo. Walt went looking for trades at the last three trade deadlines. (In fairness he did get Broxton) Outside of Choo and Latos, when Walt says he is trying to get something publically, it rarely happens.

I stand by my prediction. The Reds work out a 1 year deal, Bailey hits free agency, and the Reds get a draft pick, and the fans blame Joey Votto. Not the guy who gives contracts out that hamstring his ability to acquire and retain actual talent.

You didn't answer my question. How is it all on Walt. As far as long term deals he's at the mercy of how much ownership will agree to pay and for how long.

[Benihana]

Reds have been strapped for cash almost every offseason. Even in Choo deal they got cash back to make it work.

Didn't seem to be strapped for cash when they signed Votto and Phillips to $300 million in the same month.

[Billy Hamilton's Legs]

Seven years is insane for a pitcher. Doubly so for a small-market team.

Yeah, I agree. I initially was in favor of trying to extend both Latos and Homer. But we can't have 65 million tied up to three players, there's just too much risk there. I'd rather save the money and have more flexibility with the roster going forward. Or sign Bob Steve to a long extension after a year or something.

[Crosley68]

To be honest, I think Cueto's problem is more genetic and body type than anything. He seems to be wound tight, muscularly, and it seems to me that pulled muscles will always be a problem going forward.

Randy I agree. My friends and I have discussed that very point several times and that is our consensus. Of course we are just baseball guys and not doctors so .......

[Norm Chortleton]

You didn't answer my question. How is it all on Walt. As far as long term deals he's at the mercy of how much ownership will agree to pay and for how long.

WWTD? What would Tampa do? When someone gets too expensive and/or they know they can't sign a player long-term, they make a move before it is too late. They get something in return because they rarely let a player stick around until FA.

[LoganBuck]

You didn't answer my question. How is it all on Walt. As far as long term deals he's at the mercy of how much ownership will agree to pay and for how long.

To expound upon what Benihana just said, it isn't so much that the Reds are paying Votto and Phillips what they are, (Phillips really isn't earning that much, compared to his market) that hamstrings the teams budget. The problem where I blame Walt, is that he has spent too much money on the bullpen, (Chapman, Broxton, and Marshall), the old (Ludwick), and his infatuation with two year deals on players(especially where he backloads the deal in the second year). Then sitting around crying poor while paying for continued mistakes. Did they really need to give Sam Lecure or Logan Ondrusek two year deals? (I like LeCure, but the deal was a continuation of that same pattern)

Take a stroll over to Cotts and check out the money that this team is flushing down the drain. This doesn't even account for the long term obligations of deffered money that I don't know how to account for. Last I knew Bronson Arroyo, Scott Rolen, Ken Griffey Jr, and Barry Larkin had differed money still being payed by the Reds. Did they set up a fund that pays this through money markets? Or is that coming out of the current budget?

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/c...ncinnati-reds/

[CySeymour]

To expound upon what Benihana just said, it isn't so much that the Reds are paying Votto and Phillips what they are, (Phillips really isn't earning that much, compared to his market) that hamstrings the teams budget. The problem where I blame Walt, is that he has spent too much money on the bullpen, (Chapman, Broxton, and Marshall), the old (Ludwick), and his infatuation with two year deals on players(especially where he backloads the deal in the second year). Then sitting around crying poor while paying for continued mistakes. Did they really need to give Sam Lecure or Logan Ondrusek two year deals? (I like LeCure, but the deal was a continuation of that same pattern)

Take a stroll over to Cotts and check out the money that this team is flushing down the drain. This doesn't even account for the long term obligations of deffered money that I don't know how to account for. Last I knew Bronson Arroyo, Scott Rolen, Ken Griffey Jr, and Barry Larkin had differed money still being payed by the Reds. Did they set up a fund that pays this through money markets? Or is that coming out of the current budget?

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/c...ncinnati-reds/

Ok, that you and I can agree with. I was just wanting an explanation as to what you were indicating.

[Wonderful Monds]

I think this will get done. Between Bailey coming out and saying he actually likes Cincinnati and wants to stay and Walt expressing confidence in a deal, which is rare.

Also, why do people keep citing Sean Marshall as a waste of money? When healthy, he's arguably the best LH reliever in the game.

[dougdirt]

I think this will get done. Between Bailey coming out and saying he actually likes Cincinnati and wants to stay and Walt expressing confidence in a deal, which is rare.

Also, why do people keep citing Sean Marshall as a waste of money? When healthy, he's arguably the best LH reliever in the game.

Generally speaking, people don't want to pay for bullpens, no matter how good a guy actually is.

[Kc61]

Generally speaking, people don't want to pay for bullpens, no matter how good a guy actually is.

Not in Marshall's case.

When Marshall was acquired fans wanted an extension. Fans said the trade only made sense for an extended Marshall under control.

But he got injured so in hindsight the deal is critiqued and with some reason, relief deals are risky due to injury risk.

But originally the Marshall contract was applauded.

[LoganBuck]

Marshall was acquired with the idea of him closing after Madson left. Chapman was supposed to be starting. Then the Reds went out and paid closer money again to Broxton, so Chapman could start. Small market teams cannot afford to pay big money to closers, yet here the Reds are repeating the same mistake over and over. In the mean time the lineup has holes, and the storyline all summer will be Joey Votto's contract. Yet people will ignore the fact that this team is paying for 3 closers.

The Reds will have $28 Million Dollars committed to Marshall and Broxton over the next two years. Chapman's contract is believed to put him somewhere in the $8Million range this year by the time you get his arbitration salary, his bonus, his escalators, etc. Next season it will be more. Lets just say $10 for the sake of argument. So for a team that cries poor, the bullpen has about $46 Million over two years, tied up in three guys, who MIGHT throw a combined 200 innings per season.

[757690]

Marshall was acquired with the idea of him closing after Madson left. Chapman was supposed to be starting. Then the Reds went out and paid closer money again to Broxton, so Chapman could start. Small market teams cannot afford to pay big money to closers, yet here the Reds are repeating the same mistake over and over. In the mean time the lineup has holes, and the storyline all summer will be Joey Votto's contract. Yet people will ignore the fact that this team is paying for 3 closers.

The Reds will have $28 Million Dollars committed to Marshall and Broxton over the next two years. Chapman's contract is believed to put him somewhere in the $8Million range this year by the time you get his arbitration salary, his bonus, his escalators, etc. Next season it will be more. Lets just say $10 for the sake of argument. So for a team that cries poor, the bullpen has about $46 Million over two years, tied up in three guys, who MIGHT throw a combined 200 innings per season.

Take out Broxton and those numbers are much more acceptable. Broxton was a big mistake. Marshall and Chapman are elite arms that every contending team needs in the pen.

[Benihana]

Marshall was acquired with the idea of him closing after Madson left. Chapman was supposed to be starting. Then the Reds went out and paid closer money again to Broxton, so Chapman could start. Small market teams cannot afford to pay big money to closers, yet here the Reds are repeating the same mistake over and over. In the mean time the lineup has holes, and the storyline all summer will be Joey Votto's contract. Yet people will ignore the fact that this team is paying for 3 closers.

The Reds will have $28 Million Dollars committed to Marshall and Broxton over the next two years. Chapman's contract is believed to put him somewhere in the $8Million range this year by the time you get his arbitration salary, his bonus, his escalators, etc. Next season it will be more. Lets just say $10 for the sake of argument. So for a team that cries poor, the bullpen has about $46 Million over two years, tied up in three guys, who MIGHT throw a combined 200 innings per season.

Well said. This has been Jocketty's biggest folly and the biggest flaw with the 2013 and 2014 Reds roster. By far.

Take $15-20m of that money and give it to an upgrade in the OF or left side of the infield, and you have a much better team.

[LoganBuck]

Take out Broxton and those numbers are much more acceptable. Broxton was a big mistake. Marshall and Chapman are elite arms that every contending team needs in the pen.

The "elite" highly paid arms in the Red Sox pen? The Cardinals pen? Look around, at what some of these teams are actually paying guys in the bullpen these days, and you will see that the Reds are out of line.