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Thread: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

  1. #106
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    I probably shouldn't bump this to say that today's Christian Bale's 40th birthday, then.
    "It's not how many candles are on my birthday cake, but what I do that defines me."

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  4. #107
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Everywhere that I look (Cot's and Bref), it shows Broxton's salary actually jumping from 7 million to 9 million next year.
    Darn.

    From Cot's:

    . 3 years/$21M (2013-15), plus 2016 option
    . re-signed by Cincinnati as a free agent 11/28/12
    . 13:$4M, 14:$7M, 15:$9M, 16:$9M club option ($1M buyout)
    . if traded, 2016 club option becomes mutual option and buyout increases by $1M
    . limited no-trade protection (may block deals to 10 clubs each season)

  5. #108
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    When contemplating the salaries of Latos and Bailey, there's going to be money available from 2nd Base as soon as Phillips leaves the team.

    The contract of Phillips has proven to have been not worth the risk as it never led to a single playoff series win so far. It might have created an atmosphere of winning among those who are here now, along with a bar set very high when it comes to playing Defense and doing whatever it takes to win (bat 1st, 2nd, 4th...hit for power, hit for average, etc.). As a player, he's been great at leading by example, but it's been a very expensive pricetag.

    This team never reaches the post-season any of the last five seasons without Phillips. He's been the most steady and reliable non-pitcher on the team, with Arroyo being that person in the pitching department. Arroyo's last contract was a similar one to Phillips', meant to be a glue player that would solidify the lineup and help us get to the post-season with the hopes that he could be replaced before his contract saw it's end.

    Bailey and Latos will be affordable without Phillips and Arroyo's contracts.

    To get rid of Phillips, they're going to have to toss in a prospect to make up for the cost of the other team to take on his salary.

    That Broxton contract falls off after this season, and that's a huge help.
    Does that mean Bruce's & Votto's contracts aren't worth it either? Personally I can't wait for Brandon to have a really solid year this season and shut up all his detractors. And yes, I'm fully aware that I'm quite often delusional. :O)
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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  7. #109
    Member Mike Honcho's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Broxton's deal runs after 2015, assuming the option for 2016 isn't picked up.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...html#contracts

    quick edit, backloading that deal makes it look even worse than it already is
    Last edited by Mike Honcho; 01-31-2014 at 06:19 PM. Reason: added a quick bit of info
    They don't think it be like it is but it do.

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  8. #110
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    I really want to believe in Walt, but the Taveras and Broxton deals are two big roadblocks for me doing that sometimes. I just don't get how a "smart" GM can make those decisions.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #111
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post

    The contract of Phillips has proven to have been not worth the risk as it never led to a single playoff series win so far.

    To get rid of Phillips, they're going to have to toss in a prospect to make up for the cost of the other team to take on his salary.
    Phillips at $12M is a pretty good deal by todays standards. It could be easily movable for value.

    And assessing risk based on whether the Reds have won a playoff series is beyond comprehension.

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  11. #112
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I really want to believe in Walt, but the Taveras and Broxton deals are two big roadblocks for me doing that sometimes. I just don't get how a "smart" GM can make those decisions.
    Theo Epstein signed Carl Crawford and traded for Joel Hanrahan.

    Bob Howsem traded Tony Perez for Woodie Fryman and Dale Murray. Kinda hard to be a GM and not do a few stupid things.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  13. #113
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Theo Epstein signed Carl Crawford and traded for Joel Hanrahan.



    Bob Howsem traded Tony Perez for Woodie Fryman and Dale Murray. Kinda hard to be a GM and not do a few stupid things.

    Agreed. That's one of the only things that keeps me believing. Even so... there is no way that Theo could have known Crawford would get injured. But Walt really should have avoided Broxton and Taveras. Those were Captain Obvious bad moves from day one.
    Last edited by RedEye; 01-31-2014 at 08:17 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  14. #114
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Theo Epstein signed Carl Crawford and traded for Joel Hanrahan.
    Ben Cherington actually traded for Joel Hanrahan, Epstein did trade for Eric Gagne, though, so they do seem to share the bad trades for bad relievers gene.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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  16. #115
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Phillips at $12M is a pretty good deal by todays standards. It could be easily movable for value.
    .
    Except that apparently is not remotely true, since the Reds by all reports tried to do just that this off-season and couldn't. And that contract won't get better as Phillips gets older. It's a crap contract, especially for a team with apparently limited resources like the Reds are claiming to be.

  17. #116
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Except that apparently is not remotely true, since the Reds by all reports tried to do just that this off-season and couldn't. And that contract won't get better as Phillips gets older. It's a crap contract, especially for a team with apparently limited resources like the Reds are claiming to be.
    There were conflicting reports, some by the same reporters, so we really don't know what offers were made for Phillips and why the trades weren't made. There also were rumors that Jocketty didn't want to trade Phillips and was making very high and unreasonable demands.

    But even if the reports were true that the Yankees turned down Phillips for Gardner (which I doubt were completely true) that doesn't mean that the Phillips couldn't be traded for value. It's clear that Jocketty didn't just want value for Phillips, he wanted MLB talent that could replace Phillip's production in 2014.

    Had Jocketty been willing to trade Phillips for prospects it's likely he would gotten a fair deal done.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  18. #117
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Theo Epstein signed Carl Crawford and traded for Joel Hanrahan.

    Bob Howsem traded Tony Perez for Woodie Fryman and Dale Murray. Kinda hard to be a GM and not do a few stupid things.
    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Theo Epstein signed Carl Crawford and traded for Joel Hanrahan.

    Bob Howsem traded Tony Perez for Woodie Fryman and Dale Murray. Kinda hard to be a GM and not do a few stupid things.
    X 2. More fodder for proof. Dave Dombrowski and Billy Beane are some of the best baseball minded GM's IMHO. they've made some whoppers of questinable decisions.

    Dombrowski gave Prince Fielder that whopper of a 9 year contract when there were plenty of reasons to question why. Prince was the top slugger at the time, but history has shown that sluggers with his kind of build fade fast. A 9 year deal was too long for him.

    Billy Beane traded one of his promising prospects away, Carlos Gonzalez, who put up unimpressive offensive numbers in a small sample as an A.

  19. #118
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Theo Epstein signed Carl Crawford and traded for Joel Hanrahan.
    Theo Epstein isn't exactly budget limited either. He worked for a team that could basically print money.

    Everyone makes mistakes, but some teams can risk a mistake a lot easier because even if it doesn't work out it won't cripple them.

  20. #119
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Theo Epstein isn't exactly budget limited either. He worked for a team that could basically print money.

    Everyone makes mistakes, but some teams can risk a mistake a lot easier because even if it doesn't work out it won't cripple them.
    And yet, the Crawford signing was such a disaster that it helped Epstein get fired, and forced the Red Sox to trade Adrien Gonzalez for next to nothing just to get rid of Crawford's (and Beckett's) contract. I think it's safe to say that the Crawford signing was at least as big of a mistake as the Broxton signing, and probably a bigger one.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  22. #120
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    Re: Walt optimistic on Bailey extension

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Phillips at $12M is a pretty good deal by todays standards. It could be easily movable for value.

    And assessing risk based on whether the Reds have won a playoff series is beyond comprehension.
    The Yanks and Dodgers (two of the most free-spending teams in baseball) took a look at Brandon's contract and said, "Blech!" And both were even in the market for 2nd basemen at the time. Heck, the NYY's didn't even flinch at taking on Vernon Well's deal (granted, at a huge discount), but still wanted no part of Phillip's contract.

    I'm not saying that Brandon's not still a serviceable player, but the Reds have nO business giving 8-figure a year contracts to anyone except TOR-quality starters, top middle of the order bats and possibly an elite leadoff man. Phillips is none of the above - even if the Reds do choose to bat him in the middle of the order.

    Walt should've resisted the temptation to extend him and spent the money more wisely (ditto the monstrously ignorant Broxton deal in spades).
    Last edited by corkedbat; 02-01-2014 at 04:31 PM.

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