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Thread: Red Sox Signs Grady Sizemore

  1. #46
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Agreed. As long as they go into it with a goal if him replacing Xavier Paul and see where it goes from there, it's not a bad gamble.

    Even a big league deal isn't guaranteed depending on how soon in Spring Training they would cut bait. IIRC it's 1/6th salary if he's cut in mid spring and 1/4th if he's cut at some point in late spring. After that, it becomes guaranteed. A roster spot is probably a bigger deal than the money, but Nick Christiani and Henry Rodriguez would both seem expendable. Ryan Lamarre might be as well.
    I assumed Schumaker was the Xavier Paul replacement. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see the Reds counting on Grady being the everyday answer in CF either, which means he is probably fighting for time in LF. Seems to me that either Ludwick or Heisey would go if Grady makes this team.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Sizemore would add another outfielder to a logjam of possible reserves. With Ludwick, Bruce, Hamilton, Schumaker and Heisey it looks like Chris will be fighting for his spot.

    As I look there is Mike Wilson, who has always put up solid minor league numbers (8x over .800, 3X over .900) but is old enough to be out of "prospect" territory and into AAAA. I don't think he'll get serious consideration, more likely he's a Hessman like minor league filler. Still, he'll be there in ST.

    Then there is Jason Bourgeois, speedy and can play 2B as well as CF. Most likely ends up in AAA but he'll be trying to impress his way to a reserve spot. If they decide Billy has to go down, Jason is likely to come up.

    Thomas Neal is younger than Wilson but like Wilson has an impressive minor league resume but must be missing something because he hasn't gotten a regular shot yet. A very brief trial in Cleveland was lackluster. At 26 he'll get a more serious look than Wilson, and probably an edge to unseat a reserve OFer. If he goes to AAA then with Wilson and Hessman the Bats are going to have some serious AAAA thunder.

    Felix Perez is still around, too, another veteran minor leaguer. His numbers aren't as impressive as Wilson or Neal's and Felix is probably not considered as a possibility anymore.

    Ryan LaMarre will be trying to crack the reserves, too. Excellent glove, decent but not exceptional bat - probably just too many guys in front of him.

    If he signed, Sizemore and Neal have the inside track, imo, to bump Heisey out of the picture. Grady would have to be healthy and hit form pretty quick to make the 25 man roster, imo. I expect one of the guys above, likely Neal, to really push for a spot.
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  4. #48
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Juan Duran didn't take up a roster spot from someone else. He didn't risk losing someone else. We were competing with 20+ other teams who were also going to offer him 6 figures to sign. Juan Duran was an unknown, I get that, but we also know that Sizemore hasn't been any good for 5 years now.
    He's been "no good" because of injuries. This isn't a case of a guy forgetting how to play baseball. If he medically clears out and looks healthy I have no issue with investing 2M on the free agent market on a guy like Sizemore comapred to other ways one could invest 2M in free agency (ie. Skippy). 2M jsut doesn't get you much these days.

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  6. #49
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Sizemore would add another outfielder to a logjam of possible reserves. With Ludwick, Bruce, Hamilton, Schumaker and Heisey it looks like Chris will be fighting for his spot.

    As I look there is Mike Wilson, who has always put up solid minor league numbers (8x over .800, 3X over .900) but is old enough to be out of "prospect" territory and into AAAA. I don't think he'll get serious consideration, more likely he's a Hessman like minor league filler. Still, he'll be there in ST.

    Then there is Jason Bourgeois, speedy and can play 2B as well as CF. Most likely ends up in AAA but he'll be trying to impress his way to a reserve spot. If they decide Billy has to go down, Jason is likely to come up.

    Thomas Neal is younger than Wilson but like Wilson has an impressive minor league resume but must be missing something because he hasn't gotten a regular shot yet. A very brief trial in Cleveland was lackluster. At 26 he'll get a more serious look than Wilson, and probably an edge to unseat a reserve OFer. If he goes to AAA then with Wilson and Hessman the Bats are going to have some serious AAAA thunder.

    Felix Perez is still around, too, another veteran minor leaguer. His numbers aren't as impressive as Wilson or Neal's and Felix is probably not considered as a possibility anymore.

    Ryan LaMarre will be trying to crack the reserves, too. Excellent glove, decent but not exceptional bat - probably just too many guys in front of him.

    If he signed, Sizemore and Neal have the inside track, imo, to bump Heisey out of the picture. Grady would have to be healthy and hit form pretty quick to make the 25 man roster, imo. I expect one of the guys above, likely Neal, to really push for a spot.
    I don't think there's much of a jam. Unless they sign Sizemore and then add someone else, it's likely LF Ludwick, CF Hamilton, RF Bruce with Heisey as your reserve CF/RH bench bat, Sizemore in a modified platoon in LF with Ludwick and your primary LH bat off the bench and Schumaker counted as one of you're IF reserves who can double in the OF.

    IF Henry Rodriguez (B)
    UT Skip Schumaker (L)
    OF Chris Heisey (R)
    OF Grady Sizemore (L)
    CA Brayan Pena (B)

    None of them are without flaws by any means, but it would be a more potent bench than we've seen in the last several years. HRod would hardly be a lock, but he's young, has speed, has more bat than a Valdez/Izturus type and can play 3B and fill in at 2B and even SS better than Hannahan (plus he give you a right and a left handed bench bat). If you need a defensive SS, stash him in L'Ville unless Cozart does on the DL or is day to day. I'm OK with Rodriguez at SS if Cozart needs to come out for a couple of inning or for one start to give Zach the occasional day off. He isn't perfect and he might not hit a lot, but I'd prefer him to Hannahan or the generic can't hit an damn thing reserve SS that Walt usually produces. I'd be working him at SS extensively once ST begins.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 01-20-2014 at 01:33 PM.

  7. #50
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    I like it. High reward risk.
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  9. #51
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    I need to check the minor league forum more often. I have no idea who Wilson or Neal are and I didn't realize we had Bourgeois either.
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Juan Duran didn't take up a roster spot from someone else. He didn't risk losing someone else. We were competing with 20+ other teams who were also going to offer him 6 figures to sign. Juan Duran was an unknown, I get that, but we also know that Sizemore hasn't been any good for 5 years now.
    I think the Reds (and any other clubs) are trying to get GS to take a minor league deal and ST invite. If he insists on a MLB contract, I'd expect the Reds to try and get a second year option, with a buyout if they don't exercise. They may not succeed, but GS might agree to the option in exchange for a MLB guaranteed contract.

    If the Reds sign GS to a minor league deal, then I see no immediate impact on the expected 25 man roster. He'll be wait and see.

    If they sign GS to a major league deal, then I think they would either forego the backup shortstop. Or they would trade an outfielder like Heisey. Or they would send Hamilton to the minors initially.

    I expect Schumaker to be on the team. I think he was signed for versatility and leadership. Pena's spot is secure. Hannahan is the only backup infielder right now, he wouldn't be impacted.

    So GS could replace Heisey, or Hamilton, or the phantom backup shortstop on the bench.
    Last edited by Kc61; 01-20-2014 at 01:41 PM.

  11. #53
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It wouldn't be the worst idea ever. But I just can't see where you can sit there and offer a guy who has no MLB at bats in the last two years, and the two years before that hit .220/.280/.379 with 27 walks and 120 strikeouts a Major League deal. The last time Sizemore showed any kind of actual value on a baseball field was in 2009 when he hit .248/.343/.445. It just seems kind of crazy to guarantee him real money with all of that going on.
    If that is the difference between getting him and not, it's a price I'd be willing to pay (with Castellini's money). Not saying he deserves it in some philosophical sense; only that I think the upside merits the risk.

    As for the Mark Prior comp, he hadn't pitched in the majors since 2006, effectively since 2005 and has had numerous failed comeback attempts in the interim. He's also a pitcher, of which little else needs to be said. The likelihood of Prior coming back and being healthy and effective was much smaller.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  13. #54
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Reds have had a little success getting guys who had been out of the game for awhile.

    So you're thinking he'll give us 1 great season, then we'll trade him for a pitching prospect who can't find the strike zone with a GPS and a search party?

    Interesting.
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    1.Sizemore's splits are interesting. Even in 2010 he had a .706 against RHers. .751 in 2011. Where he completely collapsed was against LHers. Since I'm assuming the plan is to platoon him, at least some, with Ludwick, this augurs decently (a lot more positively than his overall numbers in those years).
    2. I'd prefer a minor league contract but suspect we can't get him without a major league deal. I hope they can set up the right incentives to make a team option for the second year look pretty appealing. GS would be wise to spend some time in GABP building up some numbers and after Ludwick leaves in 2015 a platoon with YRod might work very well for him and the Reds.
    3. I don't see him putting pressure on Heisey for a roster spot as I don't see how you can let Heisey go until you're sure Hamilton can handle CF. A Heisey/Schumaker CF platoon has to be option number 2 behind Hamilton (or perhaps a secret option number 1).

  16. #56
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Phil Ervin is already 21 years old. We don't need Sizemore and certainly not for 2 years.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  17. #57
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Sizemore hasn't been good since Moby Dick was a minnow. I think expecting him to contribute in 2014 is more hope than reality. Although bringing him into camp would at least give me something to watch during Spring Training.

  18. #58
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Sizemore hasn't been good since Moby Dick was a minnow. I think expecting him to contribute in 2014 is more hope than reality. Although bringing him into camp would at least give me something to watch during Spring Training.
    Watch Winker, Ervin, Lutz, Hamilton, LaMarre. There's much more to see here than Grady Sizemore.

    The numbers Ervin puts up in Bakersfield will have him Pensacola by June and then he's just a phone call away.
    Attended 1976 World Series in my Mother's Womb. Attended 1990 World Series Game 2 as a 13 year old. Want to take my son to a a World Series Game in Cincinnati in my lifetime.

  19. #59
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Watch Winker, Ervin, Lutz, Hamilton, LaMarre. There's much more to see here than Grady Sizemore.

    The numbers Ervin puts up in Bakersfield will have him Pensacola by June and then he's just a phone call away.
    While I think Ervin will have a high likelihood of bursting into the scene this year, I wouldn't expect the Reds to forego a low risk high reward opportunity with a player like Sizemore for him. If Ervin busts out, he can take Heiseys roster spot and move ludwick to the bench, unless of course he's catching the world in fire, then move Hamilton into a reserve role.

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  21. #60
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    Re: Reds in advanced talks with Grady Sizemore

    So what injuries did Sizemore have?

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