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Thread: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

  1. #31
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Or maybe if they paid market rate, things would even out and Joey Votto wouldn't get chump change for being elite early on and 25M later, but get 8-14M the entire time he maintained his actual production at a high level.
    Name me one profession where a guy can graduate from school and enter the field as the top paid person in his industry/company/firm? You could have the #1 law student in his class come out of Harvard Law, ace the bar, and you think a law firm is going to sign him and pay him more than a partner?

    You could have a brilliant financial mind who graduates first in his class from Wharton Business School. He may have some revolutionary financial ideas, but you think he is going to walk into a wall street firm and be the highest paid analyst there?

    In any industry you work your way up. You are not going to go from school to being the highest paid employee right away. You will put in your time and work your way up the ladder.

    I do get you saying that Mike Trout makes minimum wage. If that is the minimum sign me up!

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  3. #32
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    In 1967 the combined payroll of the entire Major Leagues was 9.5 million dollars.

  4. #33
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Then, as woy said, small market teams like the Reds would never be able to compete. The cost control of the pre-FA years is what keeps some semblance of parity in the league. Of course it could be much better with a cap, but without the cost control system of pre-FA, there would be 4-6 major league teams and everyone else (including the Reds) would be practice fodder.
    As I noted above, if you got rid of this minimum scale, then the "big contracts" would be much lower. That money is only there because they don't have to pay the youngsters. If they paid everyone what they were worth on the field, stars would make $15M instead of 25-30. It would all filter down and the stars would still get theirs, they would just get it in different payments because they would get more early and less later.

  5. #34
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Name me one profession where a guy can graduate from school and enter the field as the top paid person in his industry/company/firm? You could have the #1 law student in his class come out of Harvard Law, ace the bar, and you think a law firm is going to sign him and pay him more than a partner?

    You could have a brilliant financial mind who graduates first in his class from Wharton Business School. He may have some revolutionary financial ideas, but you think he is going to walk into a wall street firm and be the highest paid analyst there?

    In any industry you work your way up. You are not going to go from school to being the highest paid employee right away. You will put in your time and work your way up the ladder.

    I do get you saying that Mike Trout makes minimum wage. If that is the minimum sign me up!
    In most industries you just aren't as good as the "veterans" the day you walk in the door. In sports, a lot of guys are. That is why it is different.

    But lets use your example. Do you think that your example ace lawyer is making the exact same as the middle of the road lawyer who barely passed his BAR and graduated from Cincinnati? Because if it were baseball, they would be for their first three full seasons no matter how each guy performed.

  6. #35
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    In 1967 the combined payroll of the entire Major Leagues was 9.5 million dollars.
    Those guys were getting completely screwed. But we can't go back in time to fix that. Hypothetically, we could fix the current pay scaling system.

  7. #36
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    I guess the Yankees weren't that serious about staying under the luxury tax after all.

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  9. #37
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    In most industries you just aren't as good as the "veterans" the day you walk in the door. In sports, a lot of guys are. That is why it is different.

    But lets use your example. Do you think that your example ace lawyer is making the exact same as the middle of the road lawyer who barely passed his BAR and graduated from Cincinnati? Because if it were baseball, they would be for their first three full seasons no matter how each guy performed.
    If the lawyer had been in the firm for a number of years and been productive, yes I think he would make more than a rookie lawyer.

    Your method is fantasy and would never work. You can't expect teams to pay market value for their young players that they currently have under control. Lets say you pay Trout what he deserves, 30M, and then you pay every other guy based upon what they actually "deserve." You think your going to see a guy like Albert Pujols take less because some 1st year guy is making more? You think you are going to have veterans accept less money because some Rookie of the Year is making $20M a season? Teams would be forced to trade away any promising player because in year 2 they would become too expensive.

  10. #38
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Those guys were getting completely screwed. But we can't go back in time to fix that. Hypothetically, we could fix the current pay scaling system.
    We could but I'm sure both management and the players are against it. Management for obvious reasons and veteran players probably don't want some kid 2-3 years out of high school making $20M a year.

    Of course if we're hypothetically talking about a truly free market, there would be no amateur draft and no reserve clause.
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  11. #39
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Doug's point on Twitter cannot be overstated. Teams are limited to spending less than $10/yr in the draft. If you're born in Ohio and go 24-0 in the Northern League with a 2 ERA, you'd be lucky to get a few million bucks. Tanaka gets $155M. This is ridiculous.

    Also, surprised this hasn't been a bigger part of the conversation date: The Yankees have the most famous Japanese baseball player of all time on their roster, Ichiro. They also have a darn good Japanese pitcher who has a similar repertoire to Tanaka, Kuroda. I would not be at all surprised to find out that Tanaka wanted to be a NYY the entire time and was simply stretching things out to maximize the bidding war.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #40
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Doug's point on Twitter cannot be overstated. Teams are limited to spending less than $10/yr in the draft. If you're born in Ohio and go 24-0 in the Northern League with a 2 ERA, you'd be lucky to get a few million bucks. Tanaka gets $155M. This is ridiculous.

    Also, surprised this hasn't been a bigger part of the conversation date: The Yankees have the most famous Japanese baseball player of all time on their roster, Ichiro. They also have a darn good Japanese pitcher who has a similar repertoire to Tanaka, Kuroda. I would not be at all surprised to find out that Tanaka wanted to be a NYY the entire time and was simply stretching things out to maximize the bidding war.
    If you are born in Ohio what is preventing you from going to the Japanese league and playing until you are 25 then signing a big contract?

  13. #41
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    We could but I'm sure both management and the players are against it. Management for obvious reasons and veteran players probably don't want some kid 2-3 years out of high school making $20M a year.

    Of course if we're hypothetically talking about a truly free market, there would be no amateur draft and no reserve clause.
    Management should be for it. The current system inflates salaries far more than a pure free market system. Marvin Miller understood this, which is why he suggested this system of limited free agency and arbitration. Together they work like oil and fire to make salaries explode.

    If everyone was a free agent every year, salaries would be way down since the demand would equal the supply. The best players would still get paid premium salaries, but the rest would all get paid roughly the same low salary.

    Why pay extra for James Loney when there are over a dozen other players who can play first just as well as him? When he's one of three 1B on the free agent market, his value goes through the roof, and he signs for $21M for three years. And now, $7M a year for an average 1B is what arbitrators use to determine other players salaries.

    Fire and oil.
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  14. #42
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    If you are born in Ohio what is preventing you from going to the Japanese league and playing until you are 25 then signing a big contract?
    The agreement that MLB and the Japanese league teams have to not sign each others amateur players.

  15. #43
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Management should be for it. The current system inflates salaries far more than a pure free market system. Marvin Miller understood this, which is why he suggested this system of limited free agency and arbitration. Together they work like oil and fire to make salaries explode.
    They don't want it because they can get All Star production for 3 years on the cheap. Imagine what Mike Trout would make if he was on the open market. Of course there's nothing stopping them from paying him $25-30M a year now. They also don't want it because there are risks in giving a 1st-2nd year player all that money. How many rookies who have had great seasons flame out after that?

    I understand your point re: Marvin Miller but that doesn't apply to 1-3 year players.
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  17. #44
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As I noted above, if you got rid of this minimum scale, then the "big contracts" would be much lower. That money is only there because they don't have to pay the youngsters. If they paid everyone what they were worth on the field, stars would make $15M instead of 25-30. It would all filter down and the stars would still get theirs, they would just get it in different payments because they would get more early and less later.
    "What they are worth on the field" is begging the question.
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  18. #45
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Then, as woy said, small market teams like the Reds would never be able to compete. The cost control of the pre-FA years is what keeps some semblance of parity in the league. Of course it could be much better with a cap, but without the cost control system of pre-FA, there would be 4-6 major league teams and everyone else (including the Reds) would be practice fodder.
    Salary cap. In an ideal world baseball has one and they balance out the difference in what the ownership side makes by lowering ticket prices. Of course I'm not an idiot and know this won't happen.
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

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