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Thread: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

  1. #46
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The agreement that MLB and the Japanese league teams have to not sign each others amateur players.
    Collusion?

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  3. #47
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    They don't want it because they can get All Star production for 3 years on the cheap. Imagine what Mike Trout would make if he was on the open market. Of course there's nothing stopping them from paying him $25-30M a year now. They also don't want it because there are risks in giving a 1st-2nd year player all that money. How many rookies who have had great seasons flame out after that?

    I understand your point re: Marvin Miller but that doesn't apply to 1-3 year players.
    The vast majority of 1-3 year players aren't All-Stars. If they are, they deserve to paid as one. Most everyone else will be battling for roster spots and take what they can get salary wise.

    I agree with your final point, and that's probably a big reason why management doesn't want to change. They would have to become better evaluators of talent. Now, they can wait to see who becomes a star, and pay them after the fact.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. #48
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  6. #49
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I guess the Yankees weren't that serious about staying under the luxury tax after all.
    The Yankees briefly flirted with the idea of a Jacoby Ellsbury-Shin Soo Choo double signing – both for seven years; Ellsbury at $153 million and Choo at $140 million.

  7. #50
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Tanaka gets $155M without ever playing.

    Mike Trout has made just over $1M in two seasons.

    Baseball is stupid and I hate how they scale pay.
    I don't disagree with your sentiment. But I have to laugh at the "just" over 1 million dollars. Kinda sad how MLB skews our perceptions at times. :O)
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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  8. #51
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As I noted above, if you got rid of this minimum scale, then the "big contracts" would be much lower. That money is only there because they don't have to pay the youngsters. If they paid everyone what they were worth on the field, stars would make $15M instead of 25-30. It would all filter down and the stars would still get theirs, they would just get it in different payments because they would get more early and less later.
    I vote that baseball players should make minimum wage and get the rest of their money from advertising endorsements. :O) No? Bad idea?
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  9. #52
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I vote that baseball players should make minimum wage and get the rest of their money from advertising endorsements. :O) No? Bad idea?
    They could have interns as reserves.

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  11. #53
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I hope these opt-out clauses aren't the next big thing.
    Why wouldn't they be? It's the best of all worlds for a player -- guaranteed money if they suck, opt out to renegotiate for MORE money if they overperform.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  12. #54
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    In most industries you just aren't as good as the "veterans" the day you walk in the door. In sports, a lot of guys are. That is why it is different.

    But lets use your example. Do you think that your example ace lawyer is making the exact same as the middle of the road lawyer who barely passed his BAR and graduated from Cincinnati? Because if it were baseball, they would be for their first three full seasons no matter how each guy performed.
    But what about all the money the Angels invested in Trout.
    They drafted him, unproven (risk). They invested money in playing him in the minor leagues, coaching him, etc.
    Sure, they got return on their investment in Trout, but most prospects don't see a return on investment. What about Amir Garrett? Reds gave him a million dollars to sign, and being a mediocre college basketball player for 5 years is a higher priority for him.

    I think the vast majority of players like the system the way it is Doug. They can go to arbitration after 2-3 years and get pretty decent raises. Heck, ask Trout. I'm sure he'd rather make "LOW" wages now, but have the chance to make 20-30 million per year when he becomes FA eligible.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #55
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Management should be for it. The current system inflates salaries far more than a pure free market system. Marvin Miller understood this, which is why he suggested this system of limited free agency and arbitration. Together they work like oil and fire to make salaries explode.

    If everyone was a free agent every year, salaries would be way down since the demand would equal the supply. The best players would still get paid premium salaries, but the rest would all get paid roughly the same low salary.

    Why pay extra for James Loney when there are over a dozen other players who can play first just as well as him? When he's one of three 1B on the free agent market, his value goes through the roof, and he signs for $21M for three years. And now, $7M a year for an average 1B is what arbitrators use to determine other players salaries.

    Fire and oil.
    I understand your logic, but MLB talent is still limited.
    That's why Tanaka commanded such a high salary.
    Suppose every player was a free agent every year.. Let's use your example of Looney. If Looney is one of the top 30 1b available, he'll still get paid.

    We've all had fantasy league drafts which start off with the entire pool of players. The 1b start to get signed. Some clubs will sign two of the top 30 1b.. Then you hit a situation with just 2 legitimate 1b left and 2-4 bidders that want them, and sometimes this inflates salary.

    Making every player a FA every year might drive down salaries, or it might not. Think about Votto. It's so hard to say what would happen to his salary.
    The perception last year among many was that he had a "down" year or not "MVP" year. Let's just accept that premise for the sake of example.
    Would he get a paycut this year if everyone was going year to year?
    I'm guessing not. If anything, Votto would make more money during his prime years, and maybe less when he's 39 (or whatever age his real deal ends up).
    But who knows.. Maybe when Votto is 39, 25 million/year is the average salary. Or maybe the economy tanks or TV bubble pops and the average salary goes down.

    My point is.. it's complicated. Hard to say if making everyone a FA every year would depress salaries or not.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #56
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    "What they are worth on the field" is begging the question.
    I guess this is true. But I know for a fact that Mike Trout is worth 30 times what he is being paid, easily.

  15. #57
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    But what about all the money the Angels invested in Trout.
    They drafted him, unproven (risk). They invested money in playing him in the minor leagues, coaching him, etc.
    Sure, they got return on their investment in Trout, but most prospects don't see a return on investment. What about Amir Garrett? Reds gave him a million dollars to sign, and being a mediocre college basketball player for 5 years is a higher priority for him.

    I think the vast majority of players like the system the way it is Doug. They can go to arbitration after 2-3 years and get pretty decent raises. Heck, ask Trout. I'm sure he'd rather make "LOW" wages now, but have the chance to make 20-30 million per year when he becomes FA eligible.
    You think Mike Trout likes a system where if he was in Japan last year and hit .380/.500/.650 and was a free agent he could sign today for $275M but because he was born in the US and has to dominate the Major Leagues he has to settle for $510,000 next year? Either he doesn't understand that or you don't. But I do and it is absolutely batcrap crazy to think that it should be acceptable.

  16. #58
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    How would you fix it Doug?

    I agree, in theory (and in practice, I could concur) it is not right that Trout provides such value to a team while getting back so little in return.

    But on the flip side, in theory (and in practice) I can see the point that it is not right from a teams perspective that a high draft pick flop is paid millions of dollars in a guaranteed deal for zero or negative production.

    But what is the solution?

  17. #59
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    Poor Mike Trout, we should all feel for him

    While the terms of Mike Trout's endorsement deals have not been made public, some sports marketers have estimated his portfolio, which includes Nike, Subway, BodyArmor SuperDrink and others, to be worth between $1.5 million and $3 million in 2013. Here are the brands associated with Trout:

    NIKE
    •Nike batting gloves

    •Nike base shirt

    •Nike spikes

    Nike running shoes

    •Nike sunglasses (Trout wore Oakleys last season but was not compensated by the company)

    •Nike glove (Trout has switched to a custom Nike glove in 2013 after being under contract to wear Rawlings since 2009)


    SUBWAY RESTAURANTS

    BODYARMOR SUPERDRINK

    http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/co...ng-rookie-year

    David and Favorito believe Trout could be the next Derek Jeter, baseball's top pitchman. Forbes estimated that Jeter, Trout's boyhood idol, made $9 million from off-the-field deals in 2012, notably with Nike, Gillette, Gatorade and Ford.

    But having Jeter's mainstream endorsement muscle will take Trout more than one historic season, one All-Star selection and some exposure, such as this month's ESPN The Magazine and Men's Health covers and an upcoming spread in GQ.

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  19. #60
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    Re: Yankees To Sign Masahiro Tanaka

    I am infinitely more concerned about the bullpen security guy's finances than I am Mike Trout's.

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