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Thread: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

  1. #16
    Torty ac084c's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Yeah, I was assuming McCutchen and Trout would be off the table.

    Gomez is an interesting thought -- but that seems like an overpay to me.
    Yep, that was just to gauge the premier CFs out there.

    From 2011 - 2013, CF fWAR ranks:
    1. Trout (21.1)
    2. McCutchen (20.4)
    3. Ellsbury (16.3)
    4. Victorino (14.1)
    5. Gomez (12.6)
    6. Bourn (11.9)
    7. Kemp (11.2)
    8. A Jones (11.0)
    9. A Jackson (10.7)
    10. Granderson (10.3)

    You could definitely get Victorino for that package (probably could get him for 2 of the 3) but, would you want him at that cost? He's 33 and probably isn't a center fielder anymore.

    All three for anyone but Trout or McCutchen would be an overpay, but I guess it depends on how bullish you are about Hamilton and Winker.

    Jackson has a couple pluses in his column: he's 2 years younger than Gomez, and is a true lead-off hitter, however, he's also had the luxury of hitting in a pretty volatile Tigers lineup.

    Of those on that list (not named Trout or Cutch),I think Gomez is the best. He's 28, under team control through 2016, and is seeing steady increases in both offensive and defensive play. He's also doing it for the Brewers, who haven't been a good team since their playoff run in 2011.

    Gomez WAR/OPS in the last 3:
    2011: 1.9/.679 (split time with Nyjer Morgan)
    2012: 3.1/.768
    2013: 7.6/.844

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  3. #17
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    Yep, that was just to gauge the premier CFs out there.



    From 2011 - 2013, CF fWAR ranks:

    1. Trout (21.1)

    2. McCutchen (20.4)

    3. Ellsbury (16.3)

    4. Victorino (14.1)

    5. Gomez (12.6)

    6. Bourn (11.9)

    7. Kemp (11.2)

    8. A Jones (11.0)

    9. A Jackson (10.7)

    10. Granderson (10.3)



    You could definitely get Victorino for that package (probably could get him for 2 of the 3) but, would you want him at that cost? He's 33 and probably isn't a center fielder anymore.



    All three for anyone but Trout or McCutchen would be an overpay, but I guess it depends on how bullish you are about Hamilton and Winker.



    Jackson has a couple pluses in his column: he's 2 years younger than Gomez, and is a true lead-off hitter, however, he's also had the luxury of hitting in a pretty volatile Tigers lineup.



    Of those on that list (not named Trout or Cutch),I think Gomez is the best. He's 28, under team control through 2016, and is seeing steady increases in both offensive and defensive play. He's also doing it for the Brewers, who haven't been a good team since their playoff run in 2011.



    Gomez WAR/OPS in the last 3:

    2011: 1.9/.679 (split time with Nyjer Morgan)

    2012: 3.1/.768

    2013: 7.6/.844

    I guess I am more bullish on the idea of a future Winker-Hamilton-Ervin OF than I am on the idea of trading two of them for two years of Austin Jackson or Carlos Gomez. But yeah, those are the two guys on the list that could 1) conceivably be available and 2) make reasonable sense for the Reds strategically and financially.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  5. #18
    8.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Gomez would be worth it, given the Reds' depth of SP.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  6. #19
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I guess I am more bullish on the idea of a future Winker-Hamilton-Ervin OF than I am on the idea of trading two of them for two years of Austin Jackson or Carlos Gomez. But yeah, those are the two guys on the list that could 1) conceivably be available and 2) make reasonable sense for the Reds strategically and financially.
    I'm bullish on a Winker, Ervin, Bruce OF with Hamilton as a bench player who can PR and play SS, 2B and the OF spots. Winker gets 3 PAs with much success and Billy runs for him late in the game plays OF.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm bullish on a Winker, Ervin, Bruce OF with Hamilton as a bench player who can PR and play SS, 2B and the OF spots. Winker gets 3 PAs with much success and Billy runs for him late in the game plays OF.
    This is more in line with I'm looking forward too, if a trade for a CF doesn't happen very soon. I have think Ervin and Winker will be in AAA by late season or close, if the projection continues for both. But that still means waiting another year for them to get into GABP outfield, if not towards the end of 2015. We could use somebody out there this year, if not sending a package of players like these 3, then something else needs to happen.

    I'm still scratching my head on not signing Sizemore for that deal...if he does well he's worth the 6 million right? Ok back to this thread topic I started.

    Based on the WAR and realistic shot at getting guys, I don't see Gomez even available to an inter division team.

    What if we said we are going after Adam Jones??? Is 28, signed through 2018...around 13 mil (2014 and 15) 16 mil (16 and 17) 17 mil (18).

    Could they use Cueto/Philips/Hamilton for Jones....is that too much? Probably so.

  8. #21
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    I really don't want the Reds giving up on Hamilton now. Sell high if you sell at all. Worst case scenario he's a cheap bench player with historic speed. Best case he's a Vince Coleman / Kenny Lofton hybrid.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  10. #22
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I really don't want the Reds giving up on Hamilton now. Sell high if you sell at all. Worst case scenario he's a cheap bench player with historic speed. Best case he's a Vince Coleman / Kenny Lofton hybrid.
    I agree. If he fails, Ervin wont be far behind and Billy can become the most dynamic speed weapon off the bench in recent memory as well as affordable.

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  12. #23
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Let's think about modern day baseball and the state of our franchise. Realistically, none of these guys will be traded unless we're getting a controllable, Choo like game changer back. None of anything talked about in this thread is likely to ever happen.

    Sidenote: Gotta like our roster more than most heading into next season.

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    Old school 1983 (01-26-2014)

  14. #24
    Member Mike Honcho's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    I think the last thing that should happen is trading away young talent in any situation. Enough guys were given up for Latos. No team can succeed without inexpensive guys you develop to surround the big pieces. IMO it is better to see what is there with Hamilton, figure out what is going to happen with Bailey, put another year of development in to the system and roll the dice with what you have.

    A guy like Winker could be essential to the team in 2015. With someone like that you don't need to give 2 years and 15M to old guys like Ludwick who tend to break down. Trading him and Hamilton gives up 12 years of cost controlled salaries. It's like charging a credit card. Eventually the bill will be due.
    They don't think it be like it is but it do.

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  16. #25
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    I donīt know if this package would be reasonable... in my books the reds would overpay!

    but thatīs not the biggest question! the question is would this help the reds now or in the future?

    I think it wonīt help us now and is worse in the future!

    take from cueto from the rotation and we have latos, bailey, leake, cingrani, stephenson?!

    this would be a big blow, if one of the starters will go down our (good rotation) wouldnīt look that good anymore

    if bailey/latos leave it wouldnīt look that good next year either..

    a good cf and leadoff guy would help, but heīs not worth to risk our biggest strength (great rotation + pitchers) in order to improve at one position offensively

    and to give up our future on that position (hamilton and winker) => no way I would do this trade

  17. #26
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomnuetten View Post
    I donīt know if this package would be reasonable... in my books the reds would overpay!

    but thatīs not the biggest question! the question is would this help the reds now or in the future?

    I think it wonīt help us now and is worse in the future!

    take from cueto from the rotation and we have latos, bailey, leake, cingrani, stephenson?!

    this would be a big blow, if one of the starters will go down our (good rotation) wouldnīt look that good anymore

    if bailey/latos leave it wouldnīt look that good next year either..

    a good cf and leadoff guy would help, but heīs not worth to risk our biggest strength (great rotation + pitchers) in order to improve at one position offensively

    and to give up our future on that position (hamilton and winker) => no way I would do this trade
    I just respectively disagree, and that's why we're here, to discuss topics/scenarios.

    My opinion is, Cueto's best days are already behind him, at least with the current Reds contract, he will be maligned with injuries between now end of next year.

    I think we have a surplus of OF help coming up through the minors, and if we keep Irvin with Bruce, then can get this "said CF" from somebody and there is our future for a few years or more.

    Hamilton, I don't see him having much impact until he learns how to get on base in AAA/MLB consistently enough....that's yet to be seen.

    I imagine if we were to trade Cueto before the season, we would use his money to sign Arroyo, that's just me. So this year it would be Latos/Bailey/Arroyo/Leake/Cingrani with Holmberg, Wang, Francis on deck. If we don't sign Bailey long term, then Stephenson slides in for him in 2015.....

    That gives us a solid rotation, a talented outfield, and keeps payroll in check.

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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    Unless you're getting Trout or McCutchen that's a pretty awful deal from the Reds perspective.

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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    If Cueto, Winker, Ludwick, Marshall, Corcino, and Soto for Bautista and Rasmus doesnt happened i'll be disappointed

  20. #29
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    Re: Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

    if not them then Cueto for either Prado or Sandoval straight up


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