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Thread: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

  1. #46
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    No, no, I'm not suggesting this for developmental purposes. I'm with you completely.

    But if you expose Hamilton for 650 PAs, I think the league will figure him out, he will wear down, and his performance will likely suffer. I'd rather spot him a bit. And, then, keep him available to pinch run in key spots when he doesn't start.

    This is for team purposes, to have the most effective lineup. And best case the Reds would have a very good player back up in CF and LF. (Think today's version of Michael Tucker, if such a player exists.) That's the concept.
    Man. Michael Tucker was freaking awesome in 99/2000. I loved that guy.

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  4. #47
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Drew Stubbs posted a .610 OPS in 2012, and the Reds won the Central going away.

    I'm not worried about CF.

    Even him Hamilton goes .240/.290 he'll still score a bunch of runs and play good defense.

    I think the Reds will get better production in LF, 1B, 2B, C, and at least slightly better production at 3B, SS, and RF this year than last year. The offense will withstand the loss of Choo.

    They just can't have Votto or Bruce get hurt.
    Last edited by reds44; 01-23-2014 at 05:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  5. #48
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Drew Stubbs posted a .610 OPS in 2012, and the Reds won the Central going away.

    I'm not worried about CF.

    Even him Hamilton goes .240/.290 he'll still score a bunch of runs and play good defense.
    I totally agree. If they had a solid bat or two more in the lineup it wouldn't matter much.

    Now the spotlight will be needlessly bright on a kid that isn't quite ready for broadway.

  6. #49
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Vince Coleman scored 94 runs in 1986 with a .232 BA and a .301 OBP in 1986. Of course, it helped that he stole 107 bases that year. I see no reason Hamilton couldn't score more runs if he were to improve marginally on those numbers.He's at least as fast as Coleman.

    Of course, if he's not ready, he has options left. Just send him down to AAA until he is ready.

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  8. #50
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    I bat him 7th. His speed plays better down there.

    Phillips
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    Votto
    Ludwick
    Frazier
    Rocco
    Hamilton
    Cozart
    Pitcher
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #51
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    I like speed at the bottom more than the top.

    Seventh is perfect.

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  11. #52
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Drew Stubbs posted a .610 OPS in 2012, and the Reds won the Central going away.

    I'm not worried about CF.

    Even him Hamilton goes .240/.290 he'll still score a bunch of runs and play good defense.

    I think the Reds will get better production in LF, 1B, 2B, C, and at least slightly better production at 3B, SS, and RF this year than last year. The offense will withstand the loss of Choo.

    They just can't have Votto or Bruce get hurt.
    Right, but as mentioned, we aren't going to get all-star season from Ludwick and Frazier. Even with improved production from both spots, they will still be far less than what they were in 2012.

    So in CF, we're talking about going from the 2nd best OBP in baseball to what will probably be one of the worst. The starting LF is an aging slugger with shoulder surgery as part of his history now and the starting 3B is a tweener.

    Maybe they will find a way to pick up the slack overall, but I am not looking forward to seeing what the 2014 Reds offense does.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  12. #53
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Stubbs hit like Stubbs and scored 90+ runs twice.

    Which begs the question... What exactly do we want from Billy Hamilton? When Stubbs was around .260 .325 .440 He scored 91 runs. 2010-2011. His walk rate is fairly consistent, His ability to get a hit however has dropped every year since 2010, though it did rebound slightly last year.

    So Hamilton at .260 .330 .375? Is that ok? with his particular style, the power isn't as important, because he'll keep opposing pitchers honest with the bunt/swinging bunt threat, something Stubbs never really did, but had some decent power to offset that.

    So can Hamilton post at least a .330 OBP? If he does, AND he's the leadoff hitter, he'll score 90+ runs. Last year that would have made him top 5 in all of baseball. Stubbs did that in his first full season, without properly going through the minor leagues the way Hamilton has. (Stubbs was waaaay rushed after Low A.)
    Excellent question.. What exactly does Hamilton have to do to please people.
    In his rookie season, I'd be happy if he was a 300 OBP by the end of the season. That doesn't mean 300 OBP all year, just that skill level at the end of the year. I'm sure others want more. If he OBPs 330, he's a star player, IMO.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #54
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    He can't flame out. He's too fast.

    [Insert a Richard Pryor joke here]

    You gotta stick with the kid and be patient up to a certain point obviously. As to what that "point" is, I have no idea. I just hope the kid doesn't put too much pressure on himself because of all the hype surrounding him.

    I just hope he doesn't end up going to Louisville faster then he does 1B.

    But I gotta feeling some on RZ won't be so patient. By the end of April, if he struggles, we'll be seeing threads like ....

    What's Wrong With Hamilton?
    Is Billy Hamilton A Bust?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post

    But I gotta feeling some on RZ won't be so patient. By the end of April, if he struggles, we'll be seeing threads like ....

    What's Wrong With Hamilton?
    Is Billy Hamilton A Bust?
    Just remember folks that Hamilton has a history of struggling at each new level of ball he's exposed to. The good news is that he's always made the adjustment and been ready to move up.

    It's time for the reds to find out what they have in Hamilton. Choo was never a serious consideration. He was brought in to bridge the gap and give Hamilton another year's development time.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  16. #56
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    there is one tiny problem.

    Do we really think anyone will bat Bruce 2nd? I mean, I'd do it, but BP 1, Bruce 2 is a fairly radical lineup shift.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  17. #57
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    I don't think BP and Bruce in front of Votto gives you enough of an OBP bump to stop from hitting Hamilton at the top of the lineup. I understand hitting Hamilton lower to "take the pressure off," but you're talking about a guy who has hit leadoff probably his entire life. I would imagine he's most comfortable hitting there.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  19. #58
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I don't think BP and Bruce in front of Votto gives you enough of an OBP bump to stop from hitting Hamilton at the top of the lineup. I understand hitting Hamilton lower to "take the pressure off," but you're talking about a guy who has hit leadoff probably his entire life. I would imagine he's most comfortable hitting there.
    Good point about him being used to leading off. I agree that he starts there. If we have to move him down, I would prefer BP, Votto, Bruce to Bruce 2nd, but that is probably just rehashing an old topic. If we're asking our key guys to get radically yanked around the lineup though, that might be the time to move Votto if we're ever going to do it.

  20. #59
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    But I gotta feeling some on RZ won't be so patient. By the end of April, if he struggles, we'll be seeing threads like ....

    What's Wrong With Hamilton?
    Is Billy Hamilton A Bust?
    I think that's the safest bet in history.
    Unless he OBP over 400,some people are going to complain about him.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  22. #60
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    Re: And If Hamilton Isn't Ready.....

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I think that's the safest bet in history.
    Unless he OBP over 400,some people are going to complain about him.
    I've already got my complaining posts typed up. Just have to copy and paste.

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