2014 Reds = 1919 Reds?

[redsmetz]

Another notable, though less happy similarity. After 1919 the Reds were in the running because of their deep pitching, for several years. However they failed to go out and get any offensive upgrades and never capitalized on that pitching staff again.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the club didn't do as poorly in the 20's as many assume. They had a handful of second place finishes and that's not chopped liver. Of course, it's not the brass ring, as it were.

What I did notice is that the club certainly did not take part in the home run explosion that hit the game. In most seasons we were either last or near to last in home runs. I didn't follow it all the way through the 30's, but I'm think Ernie Lombardi's 20 homers in 1939 may have been the first time the team had a 20 homer season (although somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm thinking there was a 19th century player who hit a ton for that era - not 20 though). I don't know that we really became a home run hitting club until the 1950's. And as WOY keeps pointing out, we've relied on that since until these recent years when we've emphasized pitching (although, IMO, some of those early to mid 60's teams had some decent pitching).

[RedlegJake]

From 1920 to 1926 the Reds finished 2nd 3 times, 3rd once, and had a winning record every year but 1921. Pitching was Donohue (maybe the most underrated and unknown pitcher in Reds history), Rixey, Luque, Benton, May and Mays among others. In those 7 years the season high for homers was Daubert's 12 in 1922. Three times no Red hit more than 4 homers. Ten homers led the team in 1923 the only other season anyone hit ten. Just about everyone else was adding sluggers and bopping the long ball but the Reds never did acquire a big hitter to drive the offense. In 1926 the team hit just 35 homers. Only the Braves, in 7th place, hit fewer. Pretty much the whole decade was similar but it got worse after 1926. The Reds ended with Ethan Allan as their "star" (Roush and Daubert being dealt) while Wilson, Hornsby, Frisch, Wheat, Carey, Traynor, the Waners, Bottomley, Herman, Travis Jackson, Bill Terry, Cuyler and others drove offenses around the league.

[westofyou]

From 1920 to 1926 the Reds finished 2nd 3 times, 3rd once, and had a winning record every year but 1921. Pitching was Donohue (maybe the most underrated and unknown pitcher in Reds history), Rixey, Luque, Benton, May and Mays among others. In those 7 years the season high for homers was Daubert's 12 in 1922. Three times no Red hit more than 4 homers. Ten homers led the team in 1923 the only other season anyone hit ten. Just about everyone else was adding sluggers and bopping the long ball but the Reds never did acquire a big hitter to drive the offense. In 1926 the team hit just 35 homers. Only the Braves, in 7th place, hit fewer. Pretty much the whole decade was similar but it got worse after 1926. The Reds ended with Ethan Allan as their "star" (Roush and Daubert being dealt) while Wilson, Hornsby, Frisch, Wheat, Carey, Traynor, the Waners, Bottomley, Herman, Travis Jackson, Bill Terry, Cuyler and others drove offenses around the league.

Allan went to Withrow High as well as UC, he was B I G local hero and later was the baseball coach at Yale (Coached George Bush) and he invented this popular board game All Star Baseball

[Yachtzee]

From 1920 to 1926 the Reds finished 2nd 3 times, 3rd once, and had a winning record every year but 1921. Pitching was Donohue (maybe the most underrated and unknown pitcher in Reds history), Rixey, Luque, Benton, May and Mays among others. In those 7 years the season high for homers was Daubert's 12 in 1922. Three times no Red hit more than 4 homers. Ten homers led the team in 1923 the only other season anyone hit ten. Just about everyone else was adding sluggers and bopping the long ball but the Reds never did acquire a big hitter to drive the offense. In 1926 the team hit just 35 homers. Only the Braves, in 7th place, hit fewer. Pretty much the whole decade was similar but it got worse after 1926. The Reds ended with Ethan Allan as their "star" (Roush and Daubert being dealt) while Wilson, Hornsby, Frisch, Wheat, Carey, Traynor, the Waners, Bottomley, Herman, Travis Jackson, Bill Terry, Cuyler and others drove offenses around the league.

Wasn't Redland Field/Crosley a strong pitcher's park during that era? In the early '20s, Redland was 320-352' to left, 420' to center, and 384-400' to right. The power alleys were 380-383'. Compare this to the short distance on the foul lines for the Polo Grounds (286'-279' left, 257' right) and Yankees Stadium (280' left, 295' right) and you can see why the Yankees and Giants lead the explosion of home runs in that era and Cincinnati did not.

[RedlegJake]

Yachtzee, that's true. Redland Field was one of the larger parks in outfield dimensions. They moved homeplate out 20' in 1926 to try and compensate. After 1926 the field was 339' in left, 395' to center and 383' in right. The flood of '37 brought other mods and the "goat section" added in '46 brought RF in to final dimensions of 328 LF 366 RF and 387 in center. Not long after this final shortening of the field the Reds began to add sluggers like Post, Klu, and Sauer. (Sauer was actually there in the McKechnie years from 41-43 but Bill refused to give him much playing time - he thought he fanned too much and wasn't a good enough defender. Hank finally got his shot after the war and McKechnie had left.)

[Yachtzee]

Yachtzee, that's true. Redland Field was one of the larger parks in outfield dimensions. They moved homeplate out 20' in 1926 to try and compensate. After 1926 the field was 339' in left, 395' to center and 383' in right. The flood of '37 brought other mods and the "goat section" added in '46 brought RF in to final dimensions of 328 LF 366 RF and 387 in center. Not long after this final shortening of the field the Reds began to add sluggers like Post, Klu, and Sauer. (Sauer was actually there in the McKechnie years from 41-43 but Bill refused to give him much playing time - he thought he fanned too much and wasn't a good enough defender. Hank finally got his shot after the war and McKechnie had left.)

I would say the early dimensions along with the terrace put less of a premium on power and more of a premium on outfield defense. I don't know how Babe Ruth would have fared in his younger days, but when he was finishing his career with the Braves, I gather he wasn't a fan of the terrace. I believe the story goes that he tripped going up the terrace and retired not long after.

[RedlegJake]

I would say the early dimensions along with the terrace put less of a premium on power and more of a premium on outfield defense. I don't know how Babe Ruth would have fared in his younger days, but when he was finishing his career with the Braves, I gather he wasn't a fan of the terrace. I believe the story goes that he tripped going up the terrace and retired not long after.

The Reds of the early 20s thrived on defense. Hargrave was a top notch catcher (and a good hitter), guys like Bohne, Fonseca, Pinelli, Bressler, Neale, Roush could all run and played exceptional defense. After '26 they got into financial trouble though and shipped their better players off, cut payroll, cut operations, and were in real trouble when Powell Crosley stepped in. As I understand it, he bought the team more from civic duty than desire to own a team but he quickly became a big fan. The team was so bad when he bought it, though, and the depression hurt the gate especially bad with a terrible team, that it took a few years to set things right. At first Powell's ownership was marked by bringing in over the hill vets like Bottomley, Cuyler and Simmons but he did save the franchise.

[westofyou]

This animated gif should show the changes that Crosley went through, you'll need to click on the image in the window and open it to see the animation

[klw]

for those too lazy to open the above attachment