Turn Off Ads?
Page 6 of 25 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 368

Thread: The Reds are not a contending team.

  1. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    812

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    That said, I genuinely am curious to hear what some would've considered prudent off-season moves--signing McCann, Infante, Cruz, or Santana...trading for Trumbo?
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #77
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    41,653

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    The season is lost, I'm picking up a new habit then.


  4. Likes:

    Old school 1983 (01-28-2014), Raisor (01-28-2014)

  5. #78
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,216

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Concerning the logic that the Reds, who barely won the Wild Card last year, and then lost Arroyo and Choo, will now be worse, and thus, not a contender:

    That same logic was used to predict that the Reds in 2013, after having won 97 games, and then added Choo, would win 100 games.

    Using the previous year's record, then adjusting it based on off-season moves, is a lazy and lousy way to predict future records. History has shown us that time and time again.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
    óBill Cosby

  6. Likes:

    PTjvs (01-28-2014)

  7. #79
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,955

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think the point of this thread is spot on and evidently some other knowledgeable baseball people do as well.

    Even if you disagree, post something useful that explains why. The whole, "I guess we don't have to play the games" non-sense is not only stale and been posted about a trillion times already, it seems fairly rude and squashes real discussion. It's not my board, but if it were, any such post would come with a lifetime ban. JMO.

    Thanks for posting junkhead, keep right on doing so.
    It's the same type of lame "game" that has ruined another part of the forum as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  8. #80
    A Dude in the Bushes RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,767

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    It's the same type of lame "game" that has ruined another part of the forum as well.
    Meh, one or two people said something along those lines. I certainly do no think it is ruining the board. Posting projections is fine, following up said projections with "you people are living in a fantasy world" is wrong and IMO should not be applauded.

  9. #81
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,403

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Do not misinterpret what I am saying. You know that's not my point.
    Then what is your point?

    You've already stated that anyone suggesting that the Reds have any hope of contending are living in a fantasy world.

  10. #82
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,403

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Concerning the logic that the Reds, who barely won the Wild Card last year....
    Barely won the wild card?

    We were 4 games up on the Nats at the end of the year. We were comfortably in a wild card spot pretty much all year.

  11. Likes:

    REDREAD (01-28-2014)

  12. #83
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    A few things.

    I do put stock into sophomore slumps. MLB players/teams do adapt to rookies and rookies tend to find it difficult to adjust back quickly. So no, I don't expect to see big seasons from Miller, Wacha, Rosenthal & Martinez.

    I really think Cards fans will be regretting the Peralta signing. I don't care for his defense and I think his bat is PED enhanced fool's gold.

    You can expect to start seeing declining offense from both Holliday and Molina as age and wear n' tear take its toll.

    And of course you should expect to see alot of those runs disappear with the normalization of the you-know-what.

    Could they see an upswing in HR's? Sure. But I wouldn't expect much. I could see Adams getting substantially more. But I don't think you'll see an increase from Molina or Holliday...and you lost a bunch with Beltran. So for the team overall...I think they'll stay pretty close to where they were with HR's.

    With their pitching, yes...Wainwright is a true ace. No doubt. But I look at Miller & Wacha as strugging in their second years, I see Lynn as a #4 starter, and Kelly as a AAAA starter. Their ace is better than our ace IMO...but we're better at all the other 4 slots...by a large margin. The bullpen, same deal. They're planning on leaning heavily on some rookies. That may or may not work out. I'll take our pen any day of the week. Plus, all of OUR pitching gets the added benefit of having a gold-laced defense lining up behind it every game.
    Hoping for sophomore slumps from cards players is fine, but it does not support the claim that the cardinals are going to be worse next year.

    Everyone on this board over states the value of Beltran to the cardinals during the regular season last year. He was about fifth on the team in OPS and played the worst right field in the MLB last year.

    Peralta may end up being a lame signing, but its still a MASSIVE upgrade over Kozma. Debating this is foolish.

    There is nothing to support your claim that Holliday and Molina will be worse next year.

    RISP will come down. Yes. A lot.

    There should be a substantial upswing in HR. Peralta will hit alot more than the 1 that Kozma hit. Carpenter will hit more at third than Freese did. With a full season Adams would have had about 34 HR. Craig's power numbers were way down last season. Bourjous will hit more HRs than Jay.

    What is struggling for Miller and Wacha? And why do you suspect this? What about them as pitchers would lead you to say this, and please don't respond with "I just feel this way."

    Lynn is a #4 starter and Kelly is a AAAA? I just disagree. Lynn is a head case who can only throw a fastball, and he is losing his velocity on it. Kelly is a phenomenal athlete with three good pitches. He just needs to refine them more. Kelly is younger and has alot more potential than Lynn.

    Predicting bullpens is stupid imo because they can change so quickly.

    Also, don't underestimate Carlos Martinez. He has the best stuff on the team.

  13. #84
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    27,952

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Well if we are going to play that game, ZiPS thinks the Reds are contenders, so we can just go ahead and lock this thread up.
    Exactly. ZIPS in fact projects the Reds as formidable contenders. Frankly, anyone not projecting the Reds for better than a 33 WAR is assuming the team gets hit by multiple catastrophes.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #85
    A Dude in the Bushes RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,767

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Bourjous will hit more HRs than Jay.
    Peter Boujos has hit 24 home runs in 1,136 career PA's. He hit three last season and three the year before.

  15. #86
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    6,047

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Hoping for sophomore slumps from cards players is fine, but it does not support the claim that the cardinals are going to be worse next year.

    Everyone on this board over states the value of Beltran to the cardinals during the regular season last year. He was about fifth on the team in OPS and played the worst right field in the MLB last year.

    Peralta may end up being a lame signing, but its still a MASSIVE upgrade over Kozma. Debating this is foolish.

    There is nothing to support your claim that Holliday and Molina will be worse next year.

    RISP will come down. Yes. A lot.

    There should be a substantial upswing in HR. Peralta will hit alot more than the 1 that Kozma hit. Carpenter will hit more at third than Freese did. With a full season Adams would have had about 34 HR. Craig's power numbers were way down last season. Bourjous will hit more HRs than Jay.

    What is struggling for Miller and Wacha? And why do you suspect this? What about them as pitchers would lead you to say this, and please don't respond with "I just feel this way."

    Lynn is a #4 starter and Kelly is a AAAA? I just disagree. Lynn is a head case who can only throw a fastball, and he is losing his velocity on it. Kelly is a phenomenal athlete with three good pitches. He just needs to refine them more. Kelly is younger and has alot more potential than Lynn.

    Predicting bullpens is stupid imo because they can change so quickly.

    Also, don't underestimate Carlos Martinez. He has the best stuff on the team.
    I will play a little on the Cardinals young pitching. Miller was not the same guy after June 1. I suspect he will be better moving forward, but I suspect part of the regression was the fact that the league was able to get a book on him. Does he have physical issues? Wacha will see that too this year. The game is about adjustments, will those young guys be able to adjust? Carlos Martinez as a starter? We don't know much about him either, is he the next Umbaldo Jimenez(the Colorado version) or the next Juan Cruz? Will Kelley be able to miss more bats this year?
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  16. #87
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,399

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not really. We had one last year and they went to the play-offs (thanks to the expanded format). This team took a step back from that by losing one of it's starting pitchers and it's second best offensive player. The article makes a point of saying their is a quality backfill for Arroyo and a drop-off in CF.

    How can we really argue with the logic? The team that made it in the bubble spot in 2013, took a step back, the competition has made moves to improve and the Reds haven't answered. That's all correct IMO. I personally think they will contend because of the pitching, but I also think they'll come-up short because the position players are lacking. It's not a foregone conclusion, but a lot of things would have to go right for them to make the post season. Isn't that hoping a=instead of taking action? Isn't that what the article is saying?
    But "improvements" by other teams are based on assumptions of past performance, which may or may not be the actual results for a particular season, which is the other side of the coin to underperformances by status quo Reds that may correct themselves this season.

    Projecting a 162 game baseball season is like trying to pinpoint the number of inches of snow for each major city in the state for any given winter. Too many variables to make conclusions like "The Reds are not contenders." It almost could be considered a baiting post.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  17. #88
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Terre Haute, In
    Posts
    1,294

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    These threads are going to pop up repeatedly because the Reds are going to get a lot of bad pre-season reviews.

    They lost a key player, they fell short last year, and they spent the off-season mostly compiling minor leaguers.

    Agree, disagree, whatever, but I hope we're not going to start trashing everybody who thinks the team will regress. It's a realistic possibility. And it's also a realistic possibility that the team will have good health and luck and do well.

    It's a situation that could go either way, but just expect a number of pre-season articles to be pessimistic after a lackluster off-season.
    This thread started off bashing those who feel this team is a contender, saying those that do are living in a fantasy world!!! I am not condoning bashing, but when you make a statement like that you are opening yourself up. I would hope that we all could have a good discussion on this and bashing wouldn't occur, but this is the internet where you don't see the person you are bashing!

  18. #89
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    41,653

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Exactly. ZIPS in fact projects the Reds as formidable contenders. Frankly, anyone not projecting the Reds for better than a 33 WAR is assuming the team gets hit by multiple catastrophes.
    The 1996 Yankees had no players with more than 4 WAR

  19. Likes:

    villain612 (01-28-2014)

  20. #90
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    41,653

    Re: The Reds are not a contending team.

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    It almost could be considered a baiting post.
    No it is a baiting post.

    Words are powerful, use them with caution says I.

  21. Likes:

    alwaysawarrior (01-28-2014), Brutus (01-28-2014), Old school 1983 (01-28-2014), Roy Tucker (01-28-2014)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25