Turn Off Ads?
Page 7 of 17 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 251

Thread: Bronson Arroyo signed with Arizona Diamondbacks.

  1. #91
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,794

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by wlf WV View Post
    I think he means over the time frame allotted for the cumulative 1.7war over 3 years.


    1.8 wins above replacement over 3 years,if true, makes me pause,no stop, at war.A lot of things to evaluate to get the truth.

    There are no amount of numbers thrown at any angle to make me believe that Arroyo was only 1.7 wins above replacement for the last 3 cumulative years.
    I think people are overlooking what replacement level is.

    Last year among others Lucas Harrell, Roy Halladay, Barry Zito, and Ryan Vogelsong were below replacement level.

    Find a true 0.0 WAR replacement level pitcher over 30 starts and yeah, Arroyo probably is only about a win better than them over a season.

    Now there is a bit of uniqueness with Arroyo so I'd allow a bit of give with his numbers, but let's not make him into something he wasn't.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #92
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,751

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I think people are overlooking what replacement level is.

    Last year among others Lucas Harrell, Roy Halladay, Barry Zito, and Ryan Vogelsong were below replacement level.

    Find a true 0.0 WAR replacement level pitcher over 30 starts and yeah, Arroyo probably is only about a win better than them over a season.

    Now there is a bit of uniqueness with Arroyo so I'd allow a bit of give with his numbers, but let's not make him into something he wasn't.
    I think replacement level varies greatly from team to team. The Yankees seem to use teams like the Royals and Astros to replace their players that get hurt, while teams like the Reds can only use whoever is at AAA. And whoever is at AAA for the Reds varies itself greatly from year to year.

    I understand how the theoretical replacement level player works for WAR, and it works to provide a very broad, general baseline. However, it doesn't truly reflect how valuable an individual player actually is to his specific team.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. Likes:

    OGB (02-10-2014), Old school 1983 (02-07-2014), Sea Ray (02-07-2014)

  5. #93
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,751

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by wlf WV View Post
    I think he means over the time frame allotted for the cumulative 1.7war over 3 years.


    1.8 wins above replacement over 3 years,if true, makes me pause,no stop, at war.A lot of things to evaluate to get the truth.

    There are no amount of numbers thrown at any angle to make me believe that Arroyo was only 1.7 wins above replacement for the last 3 cumulative years.
    The big problem WAR has in regards to evaluating Arroyo's value, is that Arroyo has consistently out performed his FIP his entire career. I think at this point, a rational assumption can be made that Arroyo is one of those pitchers whose ERA is more reflective of his value and production than his FIP. That means he's likely worth much more than what WAR says.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. Likes:

    Chuckie (02-07-2014)

  7. #94
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    2,219

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Arroyo to D-Backs, says Ken Rosenthal.
    Award Winning Baseball Player

  8. #95
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,437

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Bronson will love pitching out west in some of those giant parks. Good for him.

  9. #96
    Member WestSideBomber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    110

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Good for Bronson. Should be a good fit for him out west. 2 years $19 mil (with an $11 mil option) is no chump change.

  10. #97
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,738

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    2 years $23.5M guaranteed - $9.5M in 2014 and 2015 with an $11M option for 2016 and $4.5M buyout.

    So wait, should we have made him a qualifying offer?
    Go BLUE!!!

  11. #98
    Member WestSideBomber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    110

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Didn't see the $4.5 mil buyout on the option at first. $23.5 mil for 2 years is even less chump change.

  12. #99
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,175

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    BA got a much better deal than I expected.

    While I was against a qualifying offer, based on this contract, the $14 million for one year would have been about market price.

    Shows that (assuming the Reds had the money to spend) the qualifying offer decision was a close call on its merits.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-07-2014 at 05:42 PM.

  13. #100
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,041

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    BA got a much better deal than I expected.

    While I was against a qualifying offer, based on this contract, the $14 million for one year would have been about market price.

    Shows that (assuming the Reds had the money to spend) the qualifying offer decision was a close call on its merits.
    If they HAD made a qualifying offer:
    1. Arroyo would not have got such a good deal since signing team would lose a pick.
    2. Arroyo likely would have accepted that offer.
    __________________
    “This one was a perfect one. I don’t know if I can find a better one, better timing. He [Price] really said some great things there. It really encouraged us to go back and do what we do. … I didn’t know he could speak like that.” Brayan Pena 5/21/14

  14. Likes:

    CmdrCody (02-08-2014), Edd Roush (02-07-2014), mth123 (02-08-2014)

  15. #101
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,175

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    If they HAD made a qualifying offer:
    1. Arroyo would not have got such a good deal since signing team would lose a pick.
    2. Arroyo likely would have accepted that offer.
    All true, but I think the key issue is whether $14 million for one year of Arroyo would have been good for the Reds or bad for the Reds. Was that a fair number for one year of BA.

    In Choo's case, it would have been good for the Reds. He's worth more.

    In Arroyo's case, it's a close call. Based on the DBacks contract, Arroyo is worth about $14 million for a year (including the buyout). So on its merits, had the Reds made a QO, and had Arroyo accepted, they would have received roughly equivalent value. It would have been a fair number, although no bargain, for the team.

    But of course this does not factor in the Reds' budget. Since it was so tight, I assume that $14 million for Arroyo would have been a serious problem for them. So that's the deciding factor.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-07-2014 at 05:56 PM.

  16. #102
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,530

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    In your specific example you are assuming Reynolds is a 0.0 WAR pitcher over 30 games. I don't agree with that premise.
    No, you're not getting it. I know Reynolds is less than 0 WAR hence the fact that Arroyo would win us more games replacing him than he would a 0WAR player

  17. #103
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,530

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by wlf WV View Post
    I think he means over the time frame allotted for the cumulative 1.7war over 3 years.


    1.8 wins above replacement over 3 years,if true, makes me pause,no stop, at war.A lot of things to evaluate to get the truth.

    There are no amount of numbers thrown at any angle to make me believe that Arroyo was only 1.7 wins above replacement for the last 3 cumulative years.
    I mean over a "season" . Arroyo means 0.8 wins for a season assuming he replaces a 0WAR pitcher. My point is that he might realistically be replacing Greg Reynolds which would make him much more valuable

  18. #104
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Flipadelphia
    Posts
    3,796

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Happy for Bronson, and I wish him well in Arizona.

    I'm guessing this may be similar to the deferred deal he told the Reds he wasn't interested in back in October. He also said he would have jumped on the QO, because of the guarantee.

  19. #105
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    252

    Re: Bronson Arroyo says he hasn't received a single offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    2 years $23.5M guaranteed - $9.5M in 2014 and 2015 with an $11M option for 2016 and $4.5M buyout.
    Hidden in the fine print: Arizona is only on the hook for the buyout if Bronson refrains from starring in any JTM-style commercials for the life of the contract.

  20. Likes:

    757690 (02-07-2014), CmdrCody (02-08-2014), Old school 1983 (02-07-2014)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25