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Thread: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

  1. #151
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    I consider him a pocket QB as well, but he has the escapability of running QBs and is not afraid to run for a first down. The same goes for Luck who is capable of picking up chunks of yards by running.

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  4. #152
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Actually, in 2007 when the Patriots went 16-0 in the regualr season before losing to the Giants, 17-14, in the Super Bowl, Green Bay's starting QB was Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers was Green Bay's starting QB in 2011 when Brady and the Pats lost another Super Bowl to the Giants.
    Yes. I remember the picks from Favre.

  5. #153
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Troy Aikman said it best. At the end of the day, Peyton Manning is one of the five best Quarterbacks of all-time. Where among the five doesn't matter. He's one of the five.

  6. #154
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Seahawks D is just state of the art now. Offenses will adjust next year.
    Not a chance.

    They were great in 2011 (#2 Pass Coverage unit in the NFL per PFF). They were great in 2012 (#1 Pass Coverage unit in the NFL per PFF). Teams were even worse against them in 2013 (Not only #1 Pass Coverage unit in the NFL per PFF, but #1 Pass Rush unit, #4 Run Defensive unit, and #1 Defensive unit Overall per PFF). Teams not only haven't adjusted, but have gotten worse against them each season. Teams will be as bad against them in 2014 as in 2013. Seattle's Offense will be better as a passing unit, making the Seahawks' Defense that much better.

    The Seahawks will once again be competing for the NFC Championship (next year's true Super Bowl, just as it was this season).
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 02-03-2014 at 03:52 PM.

  7. #155
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Troy Aikman said it best. At the end of the day, Peyton Manning is one of the five best Quarterbacks of all-time. Where among the five doesn't matter. He's one of the five.
    Aikman said lots of things yesterday. Peyton has won 5 MVPs. That's quite a legacy. But he had an opportunity yesterday to shut up the naysayers, the same way Elway did in the 90s. Instead he turned in what may have been the most embarrassing performance by an elite QB in memory. He was literally hanging his head in the 2nd quarter.

  8. #156
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I think the Seahawks defense just beat the snot out of the Bronco offense as a collection. Manning did his dinks and dunks but the Seahawks defense just laid the wood on them and gave them no yards after the catch. And Manning has little time to throw. Brees and Kaepernick got similar rude treatment in their playoff games. Seahawks D is just state of the art now. Offenses will adjust next year.
    Seattle went up against three of the very best QBs in the NFL in the playoffs and handled them pretty well. The Seahawks have been made the very, very early, early favorites to repeat next season. Others have observed that the Ravens were an early favorite last year, but Baltimore lost some significant players from their Super Bowl champions whereas Seattle is a young team who may have everyone back. Their D is indeed the current state of the art, just nasty.
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  9. #157
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    If a defense can bring the kind of pressure, no matter how great the QB is, Manning(s), Brady, Favre, Elway, Starr, whomever, they are not going to have a good game.
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  11. #158
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Troy Aikman said it best. At the end of the day, Peyton Manning is one of the five best Quarterbacks of all-time. Where among the five doesn't matter. He's one of the five.
    The game has changed so much over the years that it is hard to confidently say who the top five QBs of all time are. The game in Sammy Baugh's era was different that the game in Otto Graham's prime in the 1950s, which had changed again by the prime of Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr in the 1960s, as no longer did players play both ways (Baugh and Graham were defensive backs as well as quarterbacks, while Baugh was also the best punter in the NFL).
    By the 1970s and the era of Roger Staubach, Kenny Stabler and Terry Bradshaw, defenses ruled in the game until the rules were changed after 1977 to favor the passing game. In the 1980s Joe Montana perfected the "west coast offense" Bill Walsh first developed with the Bengals and offenses became more scripted, while Dan Marino broke virtually every passing record there was. The 1990s saw John Elway, Brett Favre, Steve Young and Aikman. The last decade and a half added Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Drew Bees and Tom Brady to the mix, and I have left out a bunch more (and yes the careers of some of the QBs I mentioned overlapped eras).
    That's nearly 20 QBs right there. Who are the top five?
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Seattle went up against three of the very best QBs in the NFL in the playoffs and handled them pretty well. The Seahawks have been made the very, very early, early favorites to repeat next season. Others have observed that the Ravens were an early favorite last year, but Baltimore lost some significant players from their Super Bowl champions whereas Seattle is a young team who may have everyone back. Their D is indeed the current state of the art, just nasty.
    No oddsmakers saw the Ravens as even a remote consideration to win the Super Bowl going into this season with the huge losses on Defense as you mentioned (plus Boldin), decrepit Receiving Corps, poor Offensive Line, and aged Ray Rice. They were never expected to make the playoffs, but for a few people who failed to look at their individual players who would be starting for them in 2013. The Ravens over-achieved with the record they did finish with. While the 49er's were the odds-on favorites by most experts, the Seahawks were the second most likely team to win the Super Bowl going into this last season. Personally, I couldn't see any team beating the Seahawks other than the 49er's going into this season.

    Next season's favorites in my opinion, of course:

    #1 Seattle
    #2 Carolina
    #3 San Francisco
    #4 New Orleans
    #5 Philadelphia (there's no such thing as "adjusting" to Chip Kelly next season, as he hasn't even begun to unleash his knowledge onto the league, while he'll be in on his first draft as a Head Coach trying to add players to his club both on Offense and on Defense for the first time....Philadelphia will be much better, though they aren't likely to win a playoff game in the dominating NFC)
    #6 Denver
    #7 San Diego
    #8 Indianapolis
    #9 Cincinnati
    #10 Arizona

  14. #160
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman View Post
    Aikman said lots of things yesterday. Peyton has won 5 MVPs. That's quite a legacy. But he had an opportunity yesterday to shut up the naysayers, the same way Elway did in the 90s. Instead he turned in what may have been the most embarrassing performance by an elite QB in memory. He was literally hanging his head in the 2nd quarter.
    There's really not a lot a QB can do when his offensive line is collapsing around him all night. Manning calls the plays, so it's probably right to be critical of him for that, but to me this seemed like one team coming in and having their way with the other team at every position.
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    The game has changed so much over the years that it is hard to confidently say who the top five QBs of all time are. The game in Sammy Baugh's era was different that the game in Otto Graham's prime in the 1950s, which had changed again by the prime of Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr in the 1960s, as no longer did players play both ways (Baugh and Graham were defensive backs as well as quarterbacks, while Baugh was also the best punter in the NFL).
    By the 1970s and the era of Roger Staubach, Kenny Stabler and Terry Bradshaw, defenses ruled in the game until the rules were changed after 1977 to favor the passing game. In the 1980s Joe Montana perfected the "west coast offense" Bill Walsh first developed with the Bengals and offenses became more scripted, while Dan Marino broke virtually every passing record there was. The 1990s saw John Elway, Brett Favre, Steve Young and Aikman. The last decade and a half added Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Drew Bees and Tom Brady to the mix, and I have left out a bunch more (and yes the careers of some of the QBs I mentioned overlapped eras).
    That's nearly 20 QBs right there. Who are the top five?
    Couldn't agree more about the attempt to compare Quarterbacks from different era's. You can't use statistics to back up any opinions. The statistics simply are meaningless for dozens of reasons (though I'd like to point out the 49er's all-time record of 1-7 in playoff games on the road).

    I'm not agreeing with Aikman about Manning being Top-5, necessarily, but I agree that it's too difficult to come up with a definitive ranking. So many Quarterbacks played like the best there ever was, if only for two or three seasons, such as Kenny Stabler, Joe Namath, and Terry Bradshaw, while others were so much a product of the team they played for such as Bart Starr, Joe Montana, again Terry Bradshaw, and Troy Aikman.

    My Top-5:

    Johnny Unitas
    Otto Graham
    Tom Brady
    Roger Staubach
    Kenny Stabler (many wouldn't rank him in their top-50, but he's in my top-5)

  16. #162
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post

    Next season's favorites in my opinion, of course:

    #1 Seattle
    #2 Carolina
    #3 San Francisco
    #4 New Orleans
    #5 Philadelphia (there's no such thing as "adjusting" to Chip Kelly next season, as he hasn't even begun to unleash his knowledge onto the league, while he'll be in on his first draft as a Head Coach trying to add players to his club both on Offense and on Defense for the first time....Philadelphia will be much better, though they aren't likely to win a playoff game in the dominating NFC)
    #6 Denver
    #7 San Diego
    #8 Indianapolis
    #9 Cincinnati
    #10 Arizona
    You don't have Green Bay in your top 10? Think ARod is going to break his collarbone again? Please PM me, maybe we can work something out. The boys in Vegas have Green bay at 16 -1 which is 5th best. Maybe I can do better with you.

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  17. #163
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    One way to rank players is to consider what they've added to the game. Peyton Manning is like a cross between an O-coordinator and a QB. Are there other players who have had such a free hand to call their own plays? If not, and let's say other teams start allowing their quarterbacks to do the same, then doesn't it argue for him to be a top five QB?

    I kind of doubt it will happen; Manning seems unique in that regard. But what quarterbacks would you consider to have changed the way the position is played?

    Fran Tarkenton, maybe?
    During his career, Tarkenton ran for a touchdown in 15 different seasons, an NFL record among quarterbacks. He ranks fourth in career rushing yards among quarterbacks, behind Randall Cunningham, Steve Young and Michael Vick. He is also one of two NFL quarterbacks ever to rush for at least 300 yards in seven different seasons; the other is Tobin Rote. Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1986. Vikings head coach Bud Grant flatly called Tarkenton "the greatest quarterback who's ever played." When he retired, Tarkenton held NFL career records in pass attempts, completions, yardage, and touchdowns; rushing yards by a quarterback; and wins by a starting quarterback.
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  18. #164
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post

    My Top-5:

    Johnny Unitas
    Otto Graham
    Tom Brady
    Roger Staubach
    Kenny Stabler (many wouldn't rank him in their top-50, but he's in my top-5)
    There must be two dozen guys I would consider for the top 5, and I will doubtless change my mind after I post this, but I finally came up with my top five based on an analysis similar to how I sometimes rank starting pitchers. For pitchers, it comes down to who I would want to start game seven of the World Series, which is why Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson rank higher for me than a lot of 300 game winners. For quarterbacks, it largely comes down to who I want behind center when there are two minutes left in the game and my team is losing, or who do I not want as the QB of the opponent when my team is trying to hold a lead at the end. I don't ignore career accomplishments (or Ken Stabler would be in my top five), but here is my top five:
    5. Tom Brady. I can't argue with his record. But for two rallies by Eli Manning he could have five Super Bowl rings.
    4. Bart Starr. He may be 4th on this list, but there is no NFL player ever that I respect more than Mr. Starr, who has five titles and was great in the clutch. He outplayed great QBs again and again when it mattered most. He would have been great in a west coast offense as well.
    3. John Elway. He had a ton of great comebacks and had the arm and athletic ability to have been great in any era.
    2. Roger Staubach. Captain Comeback also had the arm and mobility to thrive in any era.
    1. Joe Montana. His resume against the Bengals is argument enough.

    I loved Stabler, but his period of greatness only lasted four or five seasons, too short to make my top five or ten.
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  19. #165
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    Re: Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman View Post
    Aikman said lots of things yesterday. Peyton has won 5 MVPs. That's quite a legacy. But he had an opportunity yesterday to shut up the naysayers, the same way Elway did in the 90s. Instead he turned in what may have been the most embarrassing performance by an elite QB in memory. He was literally hanging his head in the 2nd quarter.
    I think your memory is foggy muta....the performance by the whole team was subpar, not just Manning. Arguments could be made that neither interception was Mannings fault. Any game where you break a Super Bowl record for completions isn't one of the most embarrassing games, even if you don't win said game!


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