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Thread: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

  1. #1
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    Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    A pretty interesting article from BTBS.
    I think there is a fairly good chance that this will become a reality.

    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...dinson-volquez

    Edinson Volquez was really good in 2008. Since then, he's been really bad. The Pirates resuscitated the careers of A.J. Burnett and Francisco Liriano the last two seasons. Can Pittsburgh pull off another reclamation project with Volquez?
    Given all these disappointing facts, is there hope for Volquez in 2014?

    First of all, don't forget what the Pirates have done in recent seasons with pitchers who have tantalizing stuff but spotty track records. Compare Volquez' numbers over the last two seasons with what Francisco LIriano and A.J. Burnett did in their two seasons prior to joining the Pirates



    If you squint, you can make a case that Volquez 2012-13 seasons are comparable to Liriano and Burnett's pre-Pirate struggles. Volquez' ERA- is a lot higher, but his FIP- is close to Burnett's, and his xFIP- is close to Liriano's. Now, look at what Burnett and Liriano have done since donning a Pirates uniform.



    That's a dramatic turnaround. Both of these pitchers went from subpar to ace status.
    One factor that favors a Volquez about-face is Pirates pitching coach Ray Searage, who has received a lot of credit for Liriano and Burnett's recent success. Another is the Pirates catching situation, which features Russell Martin and Chris Stewart, two of the best pitch-framers in baseball. Rookie Tony Sanchez also figures to be strong in that category if he should make the roster.

    Why is this important? Well, there are four catchers that have caught at least 20 Volquez starts, and the difference in his results are drastic. Focusing only on strikeout and walk rates, this is what we see.



    Using data from 2008-13, Grandal has rated as one of the best pitch-framers in baseball, and Bako was also very good. Hundley and Hernandez have consistently been well below average. These aren't huge samples, and there are plenty of factors at play to muddle the data.

    Regardless, the differences are striking. Using kwERA, a incredibly simple ERA estimator developed by GuyM and Tom Tango, there's a difference of almost a full run based on his results with Grandal/Bako and Hernandez/Hundley. If the Pirates are placing a bet on Volquez based in part on this information, it's not a bad one.

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  3. #2
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    I'm not buying but it is an interesting gamble, and in the Pirates situation, one I'd be willing to make. I just wouldn't bet on him strongly enough to hang a rotation spot on his shoulders. The Pirates haven't. With Cole, Morton, Liriano, Locke and Rodriguez the Pirates added Volquez for depth and competition. IMO, the more starts Edinson sees, the more problems with health and regression the Pirates are having.
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    Old school 1983 (02-05-2014)

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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    I don't see it happening either. Like the article says, he had a really good '08 season and has been pretty bad since, without looking at his numbers. He walks a lot of batters and seams to be kind of a head case to me. Searage might be able to fix him, but Price couldn't, and he is one of the best in the biz. I think the roids had everything to do with how good he was doing that first season or two, hasn't been the same since getting caught, TJ surgery can't help much either!

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    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    I don't see it happening either. Like the article says, he had a really good '08 season and has been pretty bad since, without looking at his numbers. He walks a lot of batters and seams to be kind of a head case to me. Searage might be able to fix him, but Price couldn't, and he is one of the best in the biz. I think the roids had everything to do with how good he was doing that first season or two, hasn't been the same since getting caught, TJ surgery can't help much either!
    More like a half season in 08. It was a fluke. He just isn't a good pitcher.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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    Boss-Hog (02-05-2014), CarolinaRedleg (02-05-2014), Crumbley (02-05-2014), dubc47834 (02-06-2014), edabbs44 (02-06-2014), terminator (02-05-2014)

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Can the Mets fix Bruce Berenyi?

    Can the A's fix Bobby Witt?

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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Burnett and Liriano had far more success to achieve back to vs. Volquez's 1/2 season (which is about it).

    I still can't believe we ran him out there for game one of playofffs.

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    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Dating strippers is a _____ idea.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Dating strippers is a _____ idea.
    Is this a "Fill in the blank" game?

    My answer is:

    Dating strippers is a fantastic idea.

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    The Operator (04-19-2014)

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    It has never been a question of talent. Volquez has as much talent as anyone.

    But there is story after story of how he simply does not take to coaching. He had the perfect park to pitch in, in a division perfect for pitchers, the NL West.

    Now if he ever came to the realization of just how much money his decisions have cost him, he could be a dominant pitcher for a few years. But clubs will still throw 5 million at him because he throws 97. He doesn't have to try hard to succeed, because he has another 5 million reasons to say to himself that he has succeeded.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    LoganBuck (02-05-2014)

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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    It has never been a question of talent. Volquez has as much talent as anyone.

    But there is story after story of how he simply does not take to coaching. He had the perfect park to pitch in, in a division perfect for pitchers, the NL West.

    Now if he ever came to the realization of just how much money his decisions have cost him, he could be a dominant pitcher for a few years. But clubs will still throw 5 million at him because he throws 97. He doesn't have to try hard to succeed, because he has another 5 million reasons to say to himself that he has succeeded.
    He has a strong arm..but at some point just wailing away at a 95+ heater with nothign else to offer isn't much talent.

    - About as bad control of the fastball as many
    - Secondary stuff is mediocre to me. SOlid changeup but everything else is weaksauce...and he can't control it much better than his fastball.

    I just haven't seen great talent in Edinson...just a fastball thrower which isn't elite talent in MLB perspective.

  16. #11
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Do the Pirates plan on putting him in the rotation? I've been under the assumption he's about to enter the reliever phase of his career, where I could see him having some success.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    I'm guessing the Pirates pitcher friendly ballpark has as much to do with resurrections as Ray Searage.
    Can't win with 'em

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    M2 (02-05-2014)

  19. #13
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Does this mean Volquez will win 13 games and have a 2.92ERA?
    Cincinnati Reds 2014 W-L Record: 76.6-85.4*

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    *UPDATED: 2/11/2014

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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Quote Originally Posted by UK Reds Fan View Post
    I just haven't seen great talent in Edinson...just a fastball thrower which isn't elite talent in MLB perspective.
    He had one of the best swing-and-miss changeups in the game there for a while and threw easy mid 90's with movement. The talent was enormous. The control, however, was unmanageably awful.

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    Screwball (02-07-2014)

  22. #15
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    Re: Can the Pirates fix Edinson Volquez?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm guessing the Pirates pitcher friendly ballpark has as much to do with resurrections as Ray Searage.
    Volquez pitched in San Diego without any more success than he had anywhere else. I can't see PNC having much of an effect on him. He is what he is. A very inconsistent pitcher who will always frustrate pitching coaches,managers and fans.
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