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Thread: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

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    Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Throughout the winter there has been talk about whether the Reds need a dedicated backup shortstop. They acquired Santiago who seems to have the credentials to play that role.

    I find this topic interesting because Baker was known as a manager who relentlessly stuck to his theories and I always thought the backup shortstop was his thing. Yet he's gone and the team nevertheless seems to be leaning to having such a player on the bench.

    To me, this team really needs to consider using the last bench spot for a hitter rather than a backup shortstop.

    Even a Roger Bernadina. He had a bad 2013 but he's hit well previously and along with Hamilton would add much team speed and could (in a good year) provide some offense. Look at his numbers, he's had pretty good hitting seasons.

    Hannahan is a gifted infielder, he has played some shortstop, I can't see why he can't fill the backup SS spot as well as subbing for Frazier occasionally. Jack hasn't hit, I think he increases his value if he covers SS as well.

    With Schumaker, the Reds already have two guys, Hannahan and Schu, who can cover infield positions when necessary. So they really can't worry about being unable to fill positions late in games.

    I hope the Reds still will consider this because anything to bolster the offense a bit would be good. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-07-2014 at 12:04 PM.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    The teams weakest regular last two years was the SS, but it's the hardest position to fill on the field with a two way player. It's evident that it wasn't only Baker who wanted a versatile BU middle IF, Walt likes to eye them at the bar as well.

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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    The teams weakest regular last two years was the SS, but it's the hardest position to fill on the field with a two way player. It's evident that it wasn't only Baker who wanted a versatile BU middle IF, Walt likes to eye them at the bar as well.
    Is that right? It very well may be, but Zack is a 4.5 WAR player over the past 2 years. My naked eye always is telling me that Cozart is overmatched, but when the numbers come in, he always rates out well. I would have pegged catcher as the weakest link lately.

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I would have pegged catcher as the weakest link lately.
    Maybe offensively. Hanigan's defense was some of the best in the league.

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Trade Phillips for Gardner. Sign Drew with the BP cash. Go with a mix of Cozart/Drew at SS and Drew/Nelson at 2B.

    Bench is Hamilton, Schumaker, Hannahan, Nelson, Pena. We'd lose that first-round pick and would likely go a bit over budget for 2014 but it'd be worth it.

    Pipe dream, but here we are on Feb 7th and the Yankees are without a 2B and Drew is without a team.

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Trade Phillips for Gardner. Sign Drew with the BP cash. Go with a mix of Cozart/Drew at SS and Drew/Nelson at 2B.

    Bench is Hamilton, Schumaker, Hannahan, Nelson, Pena. We'd lose that first-round pick and would likely go a bit over budget for 2014 but it'd be worth it.

    Pipe dream, but here we are on Feb 7th and the Yankees are without a 2B and Drew is without a team.
    Drew has said he wants a optout clause after 1 year. Would you give him that?

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Is that right? It very well may be, but Zack is a 4.5 WAR player over the past 2 years. My naked eye always is telling me that Cozart is overmatched, but when the numbers come in, he always rates out well. I would have pegged catcher as the weakest link lately.
    I agree that he has the tendency to be judged as worse than what he gives, maybe I meant more he was the "questionable" position on the team.

    Worse position was probably Stubbs in 2012 and the catchers in 2013

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Honest question, are there teams out there that do not have a backup SS on roster? Seems like not a Dusty or Walt thing but an MLB thing.

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Agree 100% with the OP. Just think of Renteria, Valdez and Izturis. Each a waste of a bench spot.

    Guys who could fill in at SS when Cozart needs a rest (give them some time there in spring training): Hanahan, Frazier

    Guys who could fill in at SS in a pinch: Hamilton, Schumaker, Phillips

    Looks like plenty of SS to me.
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by HUHUH View Post
    Agree 100% with the OP. Just think of Renteria, Valdez and Izturis. Each a waste of a bench spot.

    Guys who could fill in at SS when Cozart needs a rest (give them some time there in spring training): Hanahan, Frazier

    Guys who could fill in at SS in a pinch: Hamilton, Schumaker, Phillips

    Looks like plenty of SS to me.
    Combined Schumaker, Hanahan, Frazier, Phillips and Hamilton have logged 3011 appearances at a position during a MLB game.

    16 of them have been at SS and the leader is Hanahan with 9.

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    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Trade Phillips for Gardner.
    There hasn't been any indications that NY would go for that deal.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Combined Schumaker, Hanahan, Frazier, Phillips and Hamilton have logged 3011 appearances at a position during a MLB game.

    16 of them have been at SS and the leader is Hanahan with 9.
    How about appearances at SS in the minors? And before that? Frazier, Hamilton and Phillips were all drafted as shortstops.

    Do you really think Santiago would make that big of a difference?
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.

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    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    What is the point of keeping Hannahan in this scenario? I don't see the logic of not carrying a real backup middle infielder in favor of finding another bat, and then keeping a glove-guy corner infielder who doesn't hit and isn't really needed as a defensive caddy either now that we know Frazier's decent. Use the two roster spots on a real backup MI and a corner IF who's more bat than glove. Problem solved, roster balanced.

    Bottom line for me, over 162 games, you need to be able to cover every position with a backup who can actually play there, especially in the pinch-hit-and-double-switch league. Stuff happens.
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    What is the point of keeping Hannahan in this scenario? I don't see the logic of not carrying a real backup middle infielder in favor of finding another bat, and then keeping a glove-guy corner infielder who doesn't hit and isn't really needed as a defensive caddy either now that we know Frazier's decent. Use the two roster spots on a real backup MI and a corner IF who's more bat than glove. Problem solved, roster balanced.

    Bottom line for me, over 162 games, you need to be able to cover every position with a backup who can actually play there, especially in the pinch-hit-and-double-switch league. Stuff happens.
    The point of keeping Hannahan is that he is signed to a guaranteed contract for 2014 with a buyout in 2015. Reds are paying him, they're going to use him.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-07-2014 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Combined Schumaker, Hanahan, Frazier, Phillips and Hamilton have logged 3011 appearances at a position during a MLB game.

    16 of them have been at SS and the leader is Hanahan with 9.
    I think the most they would have to do is play a few innings after an injury. Then some guy stashed in AAA could be called up by the next game. That's what I would do.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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