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Thread: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

  1. #31
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Sign more DeJesuses and let them fight it out in Spring Training.
    Say what you will about the man, but that was Krivsky's strength.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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  3. #32
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I don't think that's true at all. Hannahan is terrible. Sign a failed prospect to a minor league deal. Or a ST invite. Like the aforementioned Keppinger, that's how they got him. It's not hard to find players that are essentially free that are better than Jack Hannahan.
    I doubt the Reds feel that way about Hannahan.

  4. #33
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Say what you will about the man, but that was Krivsky's strength.
    Yep. Too bad it had to be the fact that he was fired as the previous GM. His strengths could really help cover up a lot of Jocketty's weaknesses, if he were perhaps the assistant GM.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  5. #34
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I doubt the Reds feel that way about Hannahan.
    Well, they would be wrong then and misguided to act on that notion.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  6. #35
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Jack Hannahan was not a bad signing last year. At the point he was signed, Frazier appeared to be more bat than glove and a defensive minded 3b to spell him at the end of the game was needed. It was not a bad signing at the time. The opposite turned out to be true about Todd. His bat struggled and he picked up the D so Jack was less needed. Going into this year, what happens if Hannahan is let go and Fraziers glove regresses? The Reds would be left defensively between a rock and a hard place. The guy lacks power but he isn't an auto out. Santiago has had offensive success in the past. He's not too shabby. The primary lefty bat is Shumacker and righty is Heisey. Don't forget lutz in AAA. Those aren't as bad of options as some make it sound. The bench was improved in the offseason IMO. I don't get the hand wringing. These guys are bench players not platoon players or starters. Bench players, good ones, usually have some redeeming quality and it's up to the manager to insert them accordingly. IMO Baker was poor in this category. Hopefully Price is better and we get more from the bench.

  7. #36
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    The bench was improved in the offseason IMO. I don't get the hand wringing.
    I'm not hand-wringing. But you'd think a team with a starting eight who carry great gloves but questionably bats would add, you know, bats not gloves.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  8. #37
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Jack Hannahan was not a bad signing last year. At the point he was signed, Frazier appeared to be more bat than glove and a defensive minded 3b to spell him at the end of the game was needed. It was not a bad signing at the time. The opposite turned out to be true about Todd. His bat struggled and he picked up the D so Jack was less needed. Going into this year, what happens if Hannahan is let go and Fraziers glove regresses? The Reds would be left defensively between a rock and a hard place. The guy lacks power but he isn't an auto out. Santiago has had offensive success in the past. He's not too shabby. The primary lefty bat is Shumacker and righty is Heisey. Don't forget lutz in AAA. Those aren't as bad of options as some make it sound. The bench was improved in the offseason IMO. I don't get the hand wringing. These guys are bench players not platoon players or starters. Bench players, good ones, usually have some redeeming quality and it's up to the manager to insert them accordingly. IMO Baker was poor in this category. Hopefully Price is better and we get more from the bench.
    Hannahan has a career .312 OBP, punctuated by a .288 last year. He's an auto-out.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  9. #38
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Hannahan has a career .312 OBP, punctuated by a .288 last year. He's an auto-out.
    The .288 was slugging, not OBP. Hannahan's lifetime OBP is .316.

    Check Mesoraco's lifetime OBP. And Cozart's.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-07-2014 at 07:35 PM.

  10. #39
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The .288 was slugging, not OBP. The lifetime OBP is .316.
    My mistake then, not that those are particularly good numbers either.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  11. #40
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Really IMO the only thing the bench lacks is some left handed pop. That may be in AAA in the form of Donald Lutz. Hannahan IMO should be kept around in case of a Frazier defensive regression. To me it seems like there's a lot of wishing that our backups would put up starter type numbers. SS with a good OBP and some pop tend to be starters.
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 02-07-2014 at 07:50 PM.

  12. #41
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    My mistake then, not that those are particularly good numbers either.
    Well, a .316 lifetime OBP isn't particularly good, but the Reds have a number of other players with much worse OBPs for their careers or last season.

    Including two starting players (of an 8 man lineup) who can't get their OBP above .300.

    So if we're talking "auto outs" which is the phrase that was used, Hannahan is far from the worst offender on the ball club.

  13. #42
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Well, a .316 lifetime OBP isn't particularly good, but the Reds have a number of other players with much worse OBPs for their careers or last season.

    Including two starting players (of an 8 man lineup) who can't get their OBP above .300.

    So if we're talking "auto outs" which is the phrase that was used, Hannahan is far from the worst offender on the ball club.
    I would suggest that just because the other players are bad does not mean that Hannahan isn't also bad. However, Mesoraco and to a lesser degree Cozart both have potential to improve still whereas Hannahan is on the downside of his unimpressive career.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  14. #43
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Really IMO the only thing the bench lacks is some left handed pop. That may be in AAA in the form of Donald Lutz. Hannahan IMO should be kept around in case of a Frazier defensive regression. To me it seems like there's a lot of wishing that our backups would put up starter type numbers. SS with a good OBP and some pop tend to be starters.
    Nobody is asking for a starter caliber backup. What the real desire is for is a backup who isn't one of the worst hitters in the league.

    The Reds seem to think that all their bench players need to play gold glove caliber defense for some reason. They shouldn't. A bench player with both a competent glove and bat is far preferable.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  15. #44
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Nobody is asking for a starter caliber backup. What the real desire is for is a backup who isn't one of the worst hitters in the league.

    The Reds seem to think that all their bench players need to play gold glove caliber defense for some reason. They shouldn't. A bench player with both a competent glove and bat is far preferable.
    A guy like Heisey? But his OBP isn't high enough right? Or a guy like Shumacker? Despite being able to play multiple positions his D isn't good enough. All back up players have their talents, but they also have their issues. That's why they are backups. Guys with solid bats and solid gloves become starters. If they true backups and not a platoon, then it's usually because they have come up through the system and really don't have a spot due to being blocked by a veteran a la Frazier in 2012 and usually get a chance to start later. Right nkw the only guy in the system that possibly fits that bill at least to me is Lutz maybe Soto or Rodriguez. There really isn't such thing as a strong bat and strong glove true backup (not platoon) unless they are an up and comer on the bench who will get a shot to start down the road or someone in the system who is blocked by someone who is much better. Guys like you described are hard to find because they are either platoon players or starters. Not true backups.

  16. #45
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    Re: Reds Backup Shortstop Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    A guy like Heisey? But his OBP isn't high enough right? Or a guy like Shumacker? Despite being able to play multiple positions his D isn't good enough. All back up players have their talents, but they also have their issues. That's why they are backups. Guys with solid bats and solid gloves become starters. If they true backups and not a platoon, then it's usually because they have come up through the system and really don't have a spot due to being blocked by a veteran a la Frazier in 2012 and usually get a chance to start later. Right nkw the only guy in the system that possibly fits that bill at least to me is Lutz maybe Soto or Rodriguez. There really isn't such thing as a strong bat and strong glove true backup (not platoon) unless they are an up and comer on the bench who will get a shot to start down the road or someone in the system who is blocked by someone who is much better. Guys like you described are hard to find because they are either platoon players or starters. Not true backups.
    Once again, you're using the word strong as an equivalent to competent. That's not what that means. Schumaker doesn't play good defense, but it's competent enough for a backup. He can get by out there without killing you.

    That's not really the case with Hannahan for example, whose hitting is so far below acceptable that he becomes a drag, even as a bench player.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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