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Thread: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

  1. #16
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    Excuses.

    Because of KMOX Cardinals fans spread from Arkansas to Tennessee to areas of the deep south.

    The Cardinals have one of the biggest fan bases in all of baseball. STL is a metro population of about 2.8M people. Cincy's metro population is 2.1M. Not a huge difference.
    That's a 40% increase in population. That's a huge difference. It is almost exactly the difference between the two team's attendance last season.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    To be fair in the density/attendacne rankings Sait Louis was #1. Their fans do attend in droves - but the differences in density and geographic area give an edge to Saint Loo. I attribute that fan loyalty to an almost continuous system of excellent management since the mid 80s. When the Reds win consistently they draw extremely well for their market. The Cards had a real lull in the 70s through the early 80s and their attendance suffered relative to the Reds on the same period. Sustained excellence does make a big difference and for 30 years now the Cards have had that. The Reds have had brief periods of excellence and long spans of futility.
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    Excuses.

    Because of KMOX Cardinals fans spread from Arkansas to Tennessee to areas of the deep south.

    The Cardinals have one of the biggest fan bases in all of baseball. STL is a metro population of about 2.8M people. Cincy's metro population is 2.1M. Not a huge difference.
    1- You're bragging about reaching into some of the least populated areas in the US where mostly Atlanta and Texas teams dominate.
    2-I would need to see evidence they are one of the biggest or at least what qualifies as "biggest"
    3-Read what I wrote earlier in the thread.
    You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.

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    Revering4Blue (03-03-2014)

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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    I really am amazed that St. Louis, which to me seems on the same level as Cincinnati, but has to fight with Royals fans being so close to their city, can draw more fans consistently than the Reds.

  9. #20
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    I really am amazed that St. Louis, which to me seems on the same level as Cincinnati, but has to fight with Royals fans being so close to their city, can draw more fans consistently than the Reds.
    No closer than Cleveland is to Cincy...and its more like KC fighting to keep their fans...
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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    Mike Honcho (03-04-2014)

  11. #21
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewdog View Post
    I really am amazed that St. Louis, which to me seems on the same level as Cincinnati, but has to fight with Royals fans being so close to their city, can draw more fans consistently than the Reds.
    I grew up in Saint Louis, and no one, I mean no one I knew, ever considered rooting for the Royals. The rivalry between Saint Louis and another city was with Chicago, and everyone hated Chicago.

    Kansas City just wasn't considered as a rival, even when they were both good in the 80's. In fact, in Saint Louis, we laughed at the notion of an I-70 Series, since no one ever drove that route to watch the Royals before.

    Also, remember, that the Royals were a new franchise, and the old KC A's were terrible. Saint Louis was the darling of the Midwest, winning NL titles almost as regularly as the Yankees won AL titles. Plus they had KMOX, broadcasting all over the Midwest, so even the small towns in between St. Louis and KC were all Cardinal towns for decades before the Royals even existed.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I grew up in Saint Louis, and no one, I mean no one I knew, ever considered rooting for the Royals. The rivalry between Saint Louis and another city was with Chicago, and everyone hated Chicago.

    Kansas City just wasn't considered as a rival, even when they were both good in the 80's. In fact, in Saint Louis, we laughed at the notion of an I-70 Series, since no one ever drove that route to watch the Royals before.

    Also, remember, that the Royals were a new franchise, and the old KC A's were terrible. Saint Louis was the darling of the Midwest, winning NL titles almost as regularly as the Yankees won AL titles. Plus they had KMOX, broadcasting all over the Midwest, so even the small towns in between St. Louis and KC were all Cardinal towns for decades before the Royals even existed.
    Yep. I live in Saint Joseph, just a few miles north of KC and there are more Cardinal fans here than Royal fans. For one thing, the Cards had a minors team here ages ago. Local radio still plays the Cards games every day. Although its long past the Cardinals huge farm system of an earlier generation built fans throughout the Midwest and central south. Those links pass from generation to generation and still feed a lot of fans to the Cards from places like Joplin and Tulsa and Enid Ok and Wichita and small Arkansas towns.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by yadontSabo View Post
    1- You're bragging about reaching into some of the least populated areas in the US where mostly Atlanta and Texas teams dominate.
    2-I would need to see evidence they are one of the biggest or at least what qualifies as "biggest"
    3-Read what I wrote earlier in the thread.
    KMOX was around long before the Braves, Astros, & Rangers thus there's lots of families in those areas that are Cardinals fans passed down from generation to generation.

    The Cardinals have are a mid market team that draws like a large market team. They are unique. It's the reason they are able to keep their payroll between $110-$120M.

    When they get their new deal they'll start operating more like a large market team too because they're going to do well with FSMW considering they only pay $15M per year from TV right now. The TV contract is going to kick in right when all this young talent they have starts to get paid and I won't be surprised if we see the Cardinals payroll bump to $150M+.

  14. #24
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    KMOX was around long before the Braves, Astros, & Rangers thus there's lots of families in those areas that are Cardinals fans passed down from generation to generation.

    The Cardinals have are a mid market team that draws like a large market team. They are unique. It's the reason they are able to keep their payroll between $110-$120M.

    When they get their new deal they'll start operating more like a large market team too because they're going to do well with FSMW considering they only pay $15M per year from TV right now. The TV contract is going to kick in right when all this young talent they have starts to get paid and I won't be surprised if we see the Cardinals payroll bump to $150M+.
    Cards definitely have done a great job at drawing fans. But they are actually third in terms of per capita attendance, just behind the Reds, and way behind the Brewers, according to this chart:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/chart...endance-2013-8

    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #25
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcomo View Post
    KMOX was around long before the Braves, Astros, & Rangers thus there's lots of families in those areas that are Cardinals fans passed down from generation to generation.

    The Cardinals have are a mid market team that draws like a large market team. They are unique. It's the reason they are able to keep their payroll between $110-$120M.

    When they get their new deal they'll start operating more like a large market team too because they're going to do well with FSMW considering they only pay $15M per year from TV right now. The TV contract is going to kick in right when all this young talent they have starts to get paid and I won't be surprised if we see the Cardinals payroll bump to $150M+.
    The Cards don't draw attendance because of KMOX or a uniqueness of the fan base. They draw because they win. That is the common denominator when evaluating rise and decline of attendance over the decades.
    You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.

  16. #26
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by yadontSabo View Post
    The Cards don't draw attendance because of KMOX or a uniqueness of the fan base. They draw because they win. That is the common denominator when evaluating rise and decline of attendance over the decades.
    The Cardinals went from 1988-2003 without a WS appearance, missed the playoffs in 12 of those 16 years, and had sub-.500 seasons in 5 of those years:
    Code:
    Season    Record    Finish    P/Off?    Attendance
    1988      75-86     5/6       N         2,892,799
    1989      86-76     3/6       N         3,080,980
    1990      70-92     6/6       N         2,573,225
    1991      84-78     2/6       N         2,448,699
    1992      83-79     3/6       N         2,418,483
    1993      87-75     3/7       N         2,844,977
    1994*     53-61     3/5       N         1,866,544
    1995*     62-81     4/5       N         1,756,727 
    1996      88-74     1/5       Y         2,654,718
    1997      73-89     4/5       N         2,634,014
    1998      83-79     3/6       N         3,195,691
    1999      75-86     4/6       N         3,235,833
    2000      95-67     1/6       Y         3,336,493
    2001      93-69     2/6       Y         3,109,578
    2002      97-65     1/6       Y         3,011,756
    2003      85-77     3/6       N         2,910,386
    *1994 and 1995 seasons shortened due to MLBPA Strike

  17. #27
    Grouch ac084c's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Where is this number coming from?
    It was mentioned in their spring training broadcast yesterday.

  18. #28
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    It was mentioned in their spring training broadcast yesterday.
    I would like to see something about that.

    I say that because I wonder how the number was come up with. Did someone say they have sold X number of season tickets then just multiply? Did that number include all season ticket packages or just full season ticket packages? Those 27 game packages are quite a bit smaller than those 81 game packages. So I want to know if there was some funny math going on there by someone who just heard a number of season tickets sold and just multiplied by 81 when they shouldn't have, or if the Cardinals themselves said they have sold 2.6M tickets already, because there is a very big difference.

  19. #29
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    The Cardinals went from 1988-2003 without a WS appearance, missed the playoffs in 12 of those 16 years, and had sub-.500 seasons in 5 of those years:
    Code:
    Season    Record    Finish    P/Off?    Attendance
    1988      75-86     5/6       N         2,892,799
    1989      86-76     3/6       N         3,080,980
    1990      70-92     6/6       N         2,573,225
    1991      84-78     2/6       N         2,448,699
    1992      83-79     3/6       N         2,418,483
    1993      87-75     3/7       N         2,844,977
    1994*     53-61     3/5       N         1,866,544
    1995*     62-81     4/5       N         1,756,727 
    1996      88-74     1/5       Y         2,654,718
    1997      73-89     4/5       N         2,634,014
    1998      83-79     3/6       N         3,195,691
    1999      75-86     4/6       N         3,235,833
    2000      95-67     1/6       Y         3,336,493
    2001      93-69     2/6       Y         3,109,578
    2002      97-65     1/6       Y         3,011,756
    2003      85-77     3/6       N         2,910,386
    *1994 and 1995 seasons shortened due to MLBPA Strike
    In 1985 and 1987, they went to the World Series. They had an off year the next year. They were a contending, winning team 4 out of the next 5 seasons.

    Then they started losing, and started drawing like a non contending team. Then they acquired Mark McGwire and started chasing the HR record, and the fans came back, and stayed when they started winning.

    Their attendance numbers from those years actually prove that they are like any other team, with fans like any other team's fans.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  20. #30
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    Re: Cardinals sold 2.6 mil tickets already

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I would like to see something about that.

    I say that because I wonder how the number was come up with. Did someone say they have sold X number of season tickets then just multiply? Did that number include all season ticket packages or just full season ticket packages? Those 27 game packages are quite a bit smaller than those 81 game packages. So I want to know if there was some funny math going on there by someone who just heard a number of season tickets sold and just multiplied by 81 when they shouldn't have, or if the Cardinals themselves said they have sold 2.6M tickets already, because there is a very big difference.
    The number I heard on their broadcast was 2.6 million tickets (seats) sold. But it was the Cardinal broadcast team, and they don't have a great record of accuracy in their reporting, much like most teams TV broadcasting teams.

    If it's true, it isn't that uncommon for teams coming off a World Series appearance. Heck, even the Twins sold 2.6 million tickets in the offseason before their new stadium opened. And the Cards are media and fan darlings this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


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