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Thread: Indiana Basketball Continued

  1. #46
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    HR......really? To foul and not turn the ball over?

    If memory serves me right he started getting minutes when CTC benched Hollowell. Ever since then he has been involved in the rotation and has been in there at critical times...even on the offensive side of the ball.

    Marlin has been in the same boat to a degree. He started seeing limited minutes in some crucial ballgames. 43 minutes or not he really shouldn't have been on the floor at all.
    It's important to know one's role.

    Don't misunderstand me, if you want to argue Davis deserved to play ahead of Howard, that's a quite reasonable argument to make. Looking from the outside, I'm inclined to agree with you.

    But to make that argument that his play has been fine, he just needed to play more is simply not accurate. Up until the last two games, his play was pretty weak.

    Given that Crean is very much a "win your minutes in practice" kind of guy, my guess is that his practices were not much better.

    The end of the season gives me a lot of hope that he's going to be a contributor going forward.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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  3. #47
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Right now I would say he is a mix between a young Charles Barkley and A.J. Moye! We got 3 more years of him, I believe upon his graduation...Hoosiers fans will have appreciated him.
    A lot of young Charles Barkley's end up more "round mound" than "rebound" if you know what I mean.

    If he could just replicate AJ Moye's career I'd be ecstatic. That's actually a good comparison because if you look at AJ's freshman year, you probably wouldn't expect him to be one of the most beloved Hoosiers four years later.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  4. #48
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    It's important to know one's role.

    Don't misunderstand me, if you want to argue Davis deserved to play ahead of Howard, that's a quite reasonable argument to make. Looking from the outside, I'm inclined to agree with you.

    But to make that argument that his play has been fine, he just needed to play more is simply not accurate. Up until the last two games, his play was pretty weak.

    Given that Crean is very much a "win your minutes in practice" kind of guy, my guess is that his practices were not much better.

    The end of the season gives me a lot of hope that he's going to be a contributor going forward.
    Guys need minutes HR. The future of the program doesn't rest with Howard. If I am gonna lose I would do it with Davis and Perrea, not Howard nor Marlin. Heck, why aint Hartman out there instead of Howard? He can foul just as well, and just like Howard, if you don't throw him the ball he aint gonna turn it over.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  5. #49
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    A lot of young Charles Barkley's end up more "round mound" than "rebound" if you know what I mean.

    If he could just replicate AJ Moye's career I'd be ecstatic. That's actually a good comparison because if you look at AJ's freshman year, you probably wouldn't expect him to be one of the most beloved Hoosiers four years later.
    I really believe he will be an impact player by the time it is done.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Guys need minutes HR. The future of the program doesn't rest with Howard. If I am gonna lose I would do it with Davis and Perrea, not Howard nor Marlin.
    I certainly don't disagree with either of those statements. Again from the outside, I'd rather have the freshmen playing through the errors and learning as well. I'm sure all things being equal, Crean would as well.

    But you're making a different point that Davis needed minutes than saying his play merited more minutes. It didn't. He was pretty much a ghost when he was out there. You could easily make the same argument about Howard which leads me to point # 2.

    Right wrong or indifferent, Crean's been fairly consistent that minutes had to be earned in practice. FWIW, I'm not 100% in agreement with that philosophy as IMO it leads to a lot of "try hard, but play poorly" guys getting more minutes than I'd like to see.
    So I think it's fair to speculate that Crean wanted Davis, & Perea & Hartman & whatever other players to earn their playing time over guys like Howard and Marlin.
    And if you're going to tell the team that, you have to be willing to back it up until they either a)practice how you want them to practice, or b)perform so well in their limited minutes that it basically forces you to play them.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  8. #51
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I certainly don't disagree with either of those statements. Again from the outside, I'd rather have the freshmen playing through the errors and learning as well. I'm sure all things being equal, Crean would as well.

    But you're making a different point that Davis needed minutes than saying his play merited more minutes. It didn't. He was pretty much a ghost when he was out there. You could easily make the same argument about Howard which leads me to point # 2.

    Right wrong or indifferent, Crean's been fairly consistent that minutes had to be earned in practice. FWIW, I'm not 100% in agreement with that philosophy as IMO it leads to a lot of "try hard, but play poorly" guys getting more minutes than I'd like to see.
    So I think it's fair to speculate that Crean wanted Davis, & Perea & Hartman & whatever other players to earn their playing time over guys like Howard and Marlin.
    And if you're going to tell the team that, you have to be willing to back it up until they either a)practice how you want them to practice, or b)perform so well in their limited minutes that it basically forces you to play them.
    Gonna play Devil's advocate here........Hollowell must be one helluva player in practice!!!!!!! LOL

    HR, I understand what you are saying....it was Bobby's philosophy as well.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  9. #52
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Gonna play Devil's advocate here........Hollowell must be one helluva player in practice!!!!!!! LOL

    HR, I understand what you are saying....it was Bobby's philosophy as well.
    He definitely had the coaching staff smitten with his play prior to the season.

    Basically, despite the coachpologist tone of my posts, I'm looking the same as you.

    I see a situation where a number of Freshmen missed a lot of opportunities to get more playing time, and I'm left wondering why. I trust there must be a reason for it, even if it's a reason I disagree with.

    I simply don't allow myself to stop at simplistic answers that basically require one to assume Crean is an idiot or doesn't want to build the program.(Not to say that's what you were saying.)
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 03-12-2014 at 02:56 PM.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  10. #53
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    I played for one of the winningest coaches in Indiana high school basketball history. His philosophy was a senior better be better than a freshman. But it was also if I am gonna lose, the freshmen are better for it to give them experience.

    CTC has me quite perplexed regarding this particular year. Out of the gate when they were playing "chippies", he didn't seem to get guys minutes that in the B1G season he would have to depend on. His substitutions patterns have me completely puzzled. Hell, who he starts anymore has me puzzled.

    The season is lost. Even if they get to the NCAA tournament it will be a short lived experience. Why play Howard? Why play Marlin? Heck, if this is Vonleh's only year, why play him when you are going for a NIT championship?

    Yogi is the heart and soul of this team and Will has played admirably but out side of that what do we know other than Troy is an athletic freak. We all knew Noah was a player.

    I am just confused.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  11. #54
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    I've said before that a lot of the traits that helped Crean climb the ladder to where he is, leave a few blind spots that come back to bite him on occasion.

    I don't think Crean ever looks at a game or season as, "well if I'm going to lose anyway," he simply hasn't allowed himself to look at a situation as one where he's going to lose. This may not be the best thing in terms of long term strategy, but it's not likely to be a situation IU fans will have to worry about too often.

    Either Crean's teams will be near the top of the B1G, or he won't be the coach for long.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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  13. #55
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    I wish he was just a little taller. He's athletic and works hard, but he's undersized in the post. He'll be a lot more useful if he can develop a mid range game in the offseason. Either way, these last few games have been a huge improvement for him!
    His huge wingspan, which accounts for his high rebounds/blocks per-minute, more than makes up for lack of height. Agree with all other points presented here.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pťrignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  14. #56
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Either Crean's teams will be near the top of the B1G, or he won't be the coach for long.
    That statement right there is what gets me. Not that I disagree with it, because I think it is dead on. Crean has to know it is true as well. He lost 4 starters from last year's team and the 7th man(Elston). To me this year was a free pass for him. I looked at the non-conference schedule and the B1G as well. I didn't expect a SS appearance but I did figure they would go to the dance with right around 20 wins. The frustrating part is they can beat anybody, but yet they can lose to anybody as well. This team doesn't look any better now than it did in December. Young teams are supposed to mature along the way and get better. IMHO it is just bad coaching.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    That statement right there is what gets me. Not that I disagree with it, because I think it is dead on. Crean has to know it is true as well. He lost 4 starters from last year's team and the 7th man(Elston). To me this year was a free pass for him. I looked at the non-conference schedule and the B1G as well. I didn't expect a SS appearance but I did figure they would go to the dance with right around 20 wins. The frustrating part is they can beat anybody, but yet they can lose to anybody as well. This team doesn't look any better now than it did in December. Young teams are supposed to mature along the way and get better. IMHO it is just bad coaching.
    That's all true, but the young teams maturing along the way never happens the way we want it to. It's never a linear thing where you see steady progress from one week to the next.

    Also, it's important to note that it's not just IU maturing but the other teams as well. As they say in the SEC, "There's a reason the other team gets paid too."

    Here's hoping the lineup just matches better next year and we see the development in the offseason.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Another disappointing loss. Oh well, probly only 1 more game left this year...if that. I wish the best for Sheehey, and hopefully these guys work hard in the offseason and get better. Oh yeah, and pray to God above that Noah Vonleh stays one more year!!!

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  18. #59
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Just brutal. Absolutely brutal.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  19. #60
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    Re: Indiana Basketball Continued

    Who is the better in game coach? Mike D or Crean?
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.


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