Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 57

Thread: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

  1. #16
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,429

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Yes, it's going to get complicated
    Not for public schools or in "right to work" states.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,546

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Not for public schools or in "right to work" states.
    The fact that it does not apply to all the schools makes it very complicated; but I don't care. It won't affect my enjoyment one bit

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,173

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    I was thinking that if this spreads over to the public universities, it may be the recruiting advantage B1G schools were looking for.

    Except for the ones' who have already enacted Southern state like "Right to work" legislation.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  5. #19
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,848

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    A few thoughts:

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Fundamentally this ruling means that they don't even have to be students. Northwestern or any other school could just buy a football team and pay them and not give them a scholarship or require they attend the university.
    Not really. Being an employee and being a student are not mutually exclusive. We haven't necessarily gone from "student-athlete" to "athlete only"; we've gone to "student-employee." Nothing in the ruling compels the NCAA to allow non-students to compete.

    The more pressing question is, since current NCAA rules prohibit professionals from competing, and "employee" infers "professional," and the NCAA decides to draw the line in the sand starting with Northwestern... well, we're in lawyer heaven now.

    Speaking of which, the main law we may recognize by the time all this is said and done, is the one about unintended consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Not for public schools or in "right to work" states.
    As I understand it, right-to-work laws just mean that a football player wouldn't have to join a players union. It doesn't mean one can't be formed.
    Not all who wander are lost

  6. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    52

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Tommy T said today out of the 1100 schools who play sports only 25 actually made money.....Is that true?

    So what do the other 1075 schools think?

  7. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,576

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Of course, Northwestern. They have a great Law College.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  8. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,173

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBombay View Post
    Tommy T said today out of the 1100 schools who play sports only 25 actually made money.....Is that true?

    So what do the other 1075 schools think?
    There's some creative accounting when talking about "only 25" making money.

    One example is largest expense is the scholarships the Athletic Department pays to University. I'd be curious to know if English Dept. Scholarships operate same way (Ie the English Dept is "losing money" because it gave out a half scholarship and didn't bring in enough revenue.)
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 03-27-2014 at 02:46 PM.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  9. Likes:

    Slyder (03-28-2014)

  10. #23
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,638

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    There's some creative accounting when talking about "only 25" making money.

    One example is largest expense is the scholarships the Athletic Department pays to University. I'd be curious to know if English Dept. Scholarships operate same way (Ie the English Dept is "losing money" because it gave out a half scholarship and didn't bring in enough revenue.)
    Generally speaking, the "English Department" doesn't give out scholarships -- most universities operate with a certain amount of money allocated (usually some portion of the interest earned on the University's endowment) for general academic scholarships. And, for the most part, "scholarship" money usually only covers a portion of the tuition for students -- full academic scholarships at universities are pretty rare.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 03-27-2014 at 04:54 PM.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  11. #24
    Member improbus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,080

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    It will be interesting to see where this goes. The most important outcome in all of this is that the players may now have a voice. For example, whenever the NCAA discusses reforms, it might be nice to actually have some students there to be in on the decision.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  12. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,672

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    This is also potentially crushing for nonrevenue sports. Many if not all of those are supported by football and basketball and unless donors step up I can see a lot of schools cutting those programs.

  13. #26
    "So Fla Red"
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    South Florida - The Real Humidor
    Posts
    5,067

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Exactly. This will hurt a lot more students in the long run. Why should taxpayers and other students subsidize any non-rev sport at a university? Bye bye women's tennis and men's rowing...

    Also, expect the weaker conferences to scale back to a lower division or drop football when you factor in stipends, medical payments and lack of actual revenue in many cases (Miami, etc.). Including many of the MAC schools.

    Also no reason this won't spread to the lower divisions, most of which are private schools. Bye bye football teams.

    Most would agree some stipend should be received in the revenue sports and post-school medical care for football. problem is don't see how the court system would allow those arbitrary distinctions. Hence the game changing and largely negative impact to the non-revs and weaker conferences/schools.

  14. #27
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,638

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    I tend to think that Title IX would prevent a school from only giving a stipend to it's revenue-producing male sports without providing an equal stipend for money-losing female sports as well. The courts have been pretty clear that you can't over-fund male sports while providing bare-minimum compliance for female sports. Numerous court cases have ruled on issues such as access to the athletic dining hall, funding for sports trips, and equipment funding must be (for the most part) equal.

    So, we're talking about schools paying not only the ~100 scholarship members of the football and basketball team, we're talking about paying an additional 100 female athletes as well. Even if the stipends are modest (say, $2,000 per semester), you're still talking about ~$800,000 in additional costs per year for athletic departments -- and that's probably a best case scenario. If you add on requirements for post-graduation medical care or require that ALL scholarship athletes receive stipends, that number could skyrocket.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  15. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,163

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBombay View Post
    Tommy T said today out of the 1100 schools who play sports only 25 actually made money.....Is that true?

    So what do the other 1075 schools think?
    There's no way that few schools actually are in the black. There's reasons why all these big business tycoons invest in sports franchises... they're cash cows. I would venture to guess that ~80% of all transactions from buying tickets at the gate to the hotdog you buy at halftime is paid with cash. There are numerous accounting tricks that you can do to hide how much you are actually making because cash is so liquid.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

    Patron to barmaid "I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive"


  16. #29
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,161

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    There's no way that few schools actually are in the black. There's reasons why all these big business tycoons invest in sports franchises... they're cash cows. I would venture to guess that ~80% of all transactions from buying tickets at the gate to the hotdog you buy at halftime is paid with cash. There are numerous accounting tricks that you can do to hide how much you are actually making because cash is so liquid.
    They absolutely are very few schools in the black when it comes to the AD. Any team who has a football program must have 85 scholarships that go towards women's sports. Off the top of my head I can think of two womens programs in all of college sports that may make money, UConn and UT basketball.

  17. #30
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,638

    Re: Northwestern football players win right to unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    There's no way that few schools actually are in the black. There's reasons why all these big business tycoons invest in sports franchises... they're cash cows. I would venture to guess that ~80% of all transactions from buying tickets at the gate to the hotdog you buy at halftime is paid with cash. There are numerous accounting tricks that you can do to hide how much you are actually making because cash is so liquid.
    The big-business tycoons are also playing in (mostly) taxpayer-financed facilities. Lots of athletic departments are carrying debt service on improvements made (most within the last decade or so) to their stadiums, arenas, practices facilities and training areas. That's before you even account for the massive costs of salaries for coaches and assistants, staffing an AD and compliance office, the logistical costs of running sports and transporting athletes to games, medical costs, and the tons of scholarship money that must be paid out of the AD funds.

    There was a recent article on the subject: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...idies/2142443/

    At a time of tight budgets throughout higher education, even the nation's few financially self-sufficient major-college athletics departments are continuing to receive subsidies in the form of student fees, school or state support, a USA TODAY Sports analysis finds.

    Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012. Of that group, 16 also received some type of subsidy — and 10 of those 16 athletics departments received more subsidy money in 2012 than they did in 2011.
    The bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of ADs offices require some form of support from the general fund (usually in the form of a "Student Activity Fee" that is billed to all enrolled students and paid, in bulk, to the ADs office) in order to pay the bills.

    Athletics are a money loser for most schools in a strict dollars-cents term. A lot of schools, however, view them as something of a "loss leader" due to the increased visibility they provide.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  18. Likes:

    dabvu2498 (03-28-2014)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25