Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

  1. #1
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,993

    3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    That's the runs the Reds have scored by game coming out of the break. Nothing surprising about that, given the injuries they are carrying and the short bench with really very few options on it. People can get mad at Price if they want, but the run the Reds went on ahead of the break was borderline miraculous as it was, with the manager wringing a lot of wins out of not much.

    Plenty of people on here have been begging for a bat for a long time time now (KC61 since the Ludwick injury a year ago Opening Day), and plenty more have been begging for a bat or bats since the latest round of injuries and that Walt should not wait, and, yet, he has waited. Again.

    So, here we are. 4.5 back of the Brewers, 3 back in the Wild Card, and a plethora of really solid teams in-between. They have a screaming need for an infusion of offense. Screaming. If they wait until July 31, that may very well be too late - which was why a lot of us were hoping for a bat long before now. The holdup, I would guess, may be Stephenson/Winker. Reds likely don't want to part with them, teams likely want them.

    My question for the room...does prospect love get in the way of deals which can help them better their chances to win now? Has the scale tipped too far in favor of hording prospects?

    And, if that is the case, and they cannot or will not make a deal because they don't want to part with one of the jewels, then I submit they should be looking into dealing one of the pitchers that they know they cannot re-sign in a year. There is no way, in my opinion, that they can retain Cueto and Latos and Leake when the time comes. If so, and they slide further, one of those could fetch a really nice return in a few weeks.

    In any event, what I do not want to see is continued inaction. This roster has desperately needed some TLC for awhile now. Either they need to make a move to try and improve their odds of contending (and do it VERY soon), or they need to get real with the fact that contention is a longshot given the injuries and what not, and, if so, deal one of the Latos/Cueto/Leake three to address needs for this team going into next year.

    What I don't want to see is the continued lack of direction from the front office.

    ETA: In fairness, I guess non-moves is a direction. I just don't agree with it. Either go for it this year, or sell a piece you cannot retain for maximum value now to give the team a better shot starting next year. Keeping the powder dry and not making a call either way...that is hard to defend for me.
    Last edited by membengal; 07-23-2014 at 08:23 AM.

  2. Likes:

    Kc61 (07-23-2014)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cincy
    Posts
    960

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    I think we will trade for a hitter, but just to play devil's advocate for a second... what if the plan is "the 2014 injuries suck, let's win the world series in 2015". Then what would you do at this deadline? I would hope you can find a bat that helps in both 14/15 personally (and I think they will) but you could at least make a case for waiting until next year to add a bat when it's more clear where we are and what we need.

  5. #3
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    2,888

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Winker is out for 2-4 weeks with a wrist injury, that may be holding up discussions

  6. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,253

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Current losing streak, Reds falling back of three teams in division and with a number of teams to overcome in wild card. Reds have to decide whether to throw prospects at 2014. This season is becoming a tough sell, lot of teams ahead of Reds.

    My guess is that team will finally make a deal, but it won't be for a rental, it will be a player or players who can also help in 2015. No idea who they will trade.

    To answer membengal's direct question, i think the Reds have indeed been very focused on keeping good prospects, it's their plan and financially important. Problem is this philosophy coincides with window period of top starting pitchers, many of whom soon will be free agents. So it's a mixed message -- build up a rotation to win, but don't trade for veterans who can finish the job.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-23-2014 at 08:29 AM.

  7. Likes:

    membengal (07-23-2014), redsmetz (07-23-2014)

  8. #5
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Freiburg (Germany)
    Posts
    1,107

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    the problem is that we have at the moment holes on offense at 1B, 2B , SS , LF ,RF

    => hard to get those holes fixed at a (very) inactive trademarket... and those positions I mentioned are the holes all season, I doubt that CF and C can produce the way they did in the first half either...

    I think weŽll see Broxton (is producing way better than expected and likely wonŽt play the same going forward) in a different uniform and perhaps (I doubt that) one of our soon free agent starting pitchers
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

  9. #6
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,993

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Current losing streak, Reds falling back of three teams in division and with a number of teams to overcome in wild card. Reds have to decide whether to throw prospects at 2014. This season is becoming a tough sell, lot of teams ahead of Reds.

    My guess is that team will finally make a deal, but it won't be for a rental, it will be a player or players who can also help in 2015. No idea who they will trade.

    To answer membengal's direct question, i think the Reds have indeed been very focused on keeping good prospects, it's their plan and financially important. Problem is this philosophy coincides with window period of top starting pitchers, many of whom soon will be free agents. So it's a mixed message -- build up a rotation to win, but don't trade for veterans who can finish the job.
    The bolded seems exactly right to me. They are caught in-between, and it is sending a mixed message. I am advocating for them to pick a side. Either try and make this window work with this rotation by getting the help they need to maximize their chances OR deal one of those arms to try and fill the myriad holes on this team looking ahead to next year and beyond. The in-between place? Not a good place.

  10. #7
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    2,888

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post

    My guess is that team will finally make a deal, but it won't be for a rental, it will be a player or players who can also help in 2015. No idea who they will trade.
    Honestly, if Walt decides to throw prospects at this season, after standing pat at the deadline the last 4 years, I have pretty much lost all faith in him. With all of the injuries this season I think expecting to make the playoffs is a mistake. If it happens, absolutely fantastic. But, if you waste 3-4 good prospects on a hopeless effort you just screwed the pooch.

    I think Walt is going to acquire Byrd to save face, because of his absolute awful job at the trade deadline the last few years. Yea, I know he got Broxton at the deadline, but we needed a bat then too, and for some reason he got a reliever - and then extended him!

    The only way I can consider this deadline a success for Walt is if he gets something for Broxton.

    I kind of just want to cry right now, it's amazing how quickly a team can implode. The Reds were arguably the best team in the NL 2 years ago.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 07-23-2014 at 08:42 AM.

  11. #8
    Member kbrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,228

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Honestly, if Walt decides to throw prospects at this season, after standing pat at the deadline the last 4 years, I have pretty much lost all faith in him. With all of the injuries this season I think expecting to make the playoffs is a mistake. If it happens, absolutely fantastic. But, if you waste 3-4 good prospects on a hopeless effort you just screwed the pooch.

    I think Walt is going to acquire Byrd to save face, because of his absolute awful job at the trade deadline the last few years. Yea, I know he got Broxton at the deadline, but we needed a bat then too, and for some reason he got a reliever - and then extended him!

    The only way I can consider this deadline a success for Walt is if he gets something for Broxton.

    I kind of just want to cry right now, it's amazing how quickly a team can implode. The Reds were arguably the best team in the NL 2 years ago.

    In the middle of a 5 game losing streak they are what 6 games back of the best record in the league? They have received very little production this year from Bruce and Votto and the injuries have been well documented. There should be nothing to cry about right now this is still a really talented roster that has had more health issues than anyone in the NL.

    I would personally wait a week and see where the team is at before deciding on anything. There isn't a single prospect that would be untouchable for me but I'm not trading Stephenson or Winker for a marginal upgrade.

  12. Likes:

    redsmetz (07-23-2014)

  13. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    They are not trading Winker and Stephenson unless it is for Stanton. This is just becoming a lost season like 1989 or 1993. I can deal with that if the next year turns around like 1990 and 1994 teams did.
    That 1994 team was really good but the strike ended any what could have been scenarios.

  14. Likes:

    Old school 1983 (07-23-2014)

  15. #10
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    2,888

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    They are not trading Winker and Stephenson unless it is for Stanton. .
    They aren't trading Winker for anyone right now. He just went on the DL with a torn tendon in his wrist.

  16. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    They aren't trading Winker for anyone right now. He just went on the DL with a torn tendon in his wrist.
    Yes I know. Now I am getting Votto fever. How will he recover.... will it affect him long term. They are not doing surgery but how do we know it will be fully healed and not linger.

  17. #12
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    2,888

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    I think I am in a bad mood right now because my dog is on his way out, but I just keep thinking this morning it will be a surprise if Winker ever recovers and becomes the player I've been hoping for the past 18 months.

  18. #13
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,335

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think I am in a bad mood right now because my dog is on his way out, but I just keep thinking this morning it will be a surprise if Winker ever recovers and becomes the player I've been hoping for the past 18 months.
    I'm sorry about your dog, it's one of the toughest things we go through with our furrry friends.

    As for "hope" and baseball, the game is always going to deal up disappointments and starts/stops and restarts, it is a lifetime of joy and sadness over what we want, what we get.

  19. Likes:

    RedFanAlways1966 (07-23-2014), redsmetz (07-23-2014)

  20. #14
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    2,888

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Thanks - he is a 13 year old yellow lab named Shatner, so we have been lucky to spend this much time with him, but now that the time has actually come, I am not reacting how I expected.

    It's true. Baseball reflects all of life better than all of the other sports. Football is more of a reflection of just war to me for example. Interesting idea to think about - now I am thinking of all of the other sports. What would hockey be a reflection of? Grim determination?

  21. #15
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,335

    Re: 3, 1, 2, 2, 3

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Thanks - he is a 13 year old yellow lab named Shatner, so we have been lucky to spend this much time with him, but now that the time has actually come, I am not reacting how I expected.

    It's true. Baseball reflects all of life better than all of the other sports. Football is more of a reflection of just war to me for example. Interesting idea to think about - now I am thinking of all of the other sports. What would hockey be a reflection of? Grim determination?
    Don't worry about your reaction, anything is natural when it comes to this, I still cry over my losses.

    Hockey is less war, more street fight. At least to me


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25