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Thread: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

  1. #1
    Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    A lot of people on this board seemed to think Lively would struggle at Double-A, which never made much sense to me considering he flat-out dominated at Bakersfield in the first half, which is a complete hitters league. Lively's numbers were staggering: 10-1, 2.28 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 79 IP, 57 H, 6 HR, 16 BB, 95 K. It doesn't get any better than that in the California League.

    And now through 11 starts at Pensacola, Lively is 2-6, 3.63 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 62 IP, 46 H, 5 HR, 32 BB (no bueno), 67 K. Other than the walks, he's been very impressive.

    He's certainly very close to Stephenson's level as a prospect. And if he keeps this up, it won't be long before he surpasses Stephenson.
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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    When the Baseball America Reds list comes out (not to mention mine, but I know you could not care a bit about my list) there will be more than a few pitchers listed between Robert Stephenson and Ben Lively within the Reds system. They aren't close as prospects.

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Edgy stuff in here.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Edgy stuff in here.
    Where I live:

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Really though, if I tried hard enough and squinted enough, I could argue Lively is the 3rd best pitching prospect in the system. At the same time, it wouldn't take much time for me to argue that he's behind Stephenson, Lorenzen, Howard, Iglesias, Travieso, Romano and Garrett while finding himself in the same area with Jon Moscot.

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Really though, if I tried hard enough and squinted enough, I could argue Lively is the 3rd best pitching prospect in the system. At the same time, it wouldn't take much time for me to argue that he's behind Stephenson, Lorenzen, Howard, Iglesias, Travieso, Romano and Garrett while finding himself in the same area with Jon Moscot.
    Name one of those guys that serves as a consistently better vehicle to not-so-subtle jabs at Stephenson...exactly. Tools you probably don't see when you're watching your precious "games".

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Lively, Stephenson, Lorenzen, Howard, Iglesias, Travieso, Romano, Garrett, Moscot.
    I'm pretty excited about all of these dues and don't really care about ranking them.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I'm pretty excited about all of these dues and don't really care about ranking them.
    Indeed. The pecking order is far less important than the fact that the Reds are chock full of bonafide pitching prospects at nearly every level of the minor league system.

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    I guess I just wouldn't agree with Chuckie's assertion that a lot of people thought Lively would struggle at AA. First of all, he has struggled. He's been pretty solid but not at all dominant like he was in A ball and lower. I think his performance at AA is about what I expected and even hoped. My own, and other observations was that I would get really excited if he continued to be dominant at AA like he had the lower leagues. He hasn't. I don't think anyone said he wasn't a good prospect - just warning that his ridiculous numbers wouldn't continue. He may be more polished than Stephenson, but he doesn't have nearly the raw stuff. I always liked Lively - I think the warnings were pretty accurate - he is a good prospect but not a sub 1 WHIP sub 2 era dominator. I would currently rank him behind Stephenson and Lorenzon, and edging Garrett, Travieso and Romano just on level. I'm not ranking Iglesias just yet but he's in the overall picture, too.
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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Really though, if I tried hard enough and squinted enough, I could argue Lively is the 3rd best pitching prospect in the system. At the same time, it wouldn't take much time for me to argue that he's behind Stephenson, Lorenzen, Howard, Iglesias, Travieso, Romano and Garrett while finding himself in the same area with Jon Moscot.
    I'm on board with the latter point.

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Let's just wait this out.

    I point to Cingrani. Whatever you think of his future, and his long-term staying power, he was just one of a bunch of good starting prospects.

    He was the one, however, who rocketed through the system and had immediate major league success.

    You just never know with these guys. Rankings are fun. But the key is to have quality depth, not to predict who will emerge.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    But the key is to have quality depth, not to predict who will emerge.
    It's key for me to predict who will emerge.... otherwise my entire business falls apart and I have to go get a real job. Do. Not. Want.

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It's key for me to predict who will emerge.... otherwise my entire business falls apart and I have to go get a real job. Do. Not. Want.
    I view you as a professional. You should make whatever rankings or picks you want, and we all are grateful that you do.

  19. #14
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    I'm no pro, but here is my shot for starting pitchers who I think have a shot at pitching in the big leagues for a sustained amount of time (many may be as relievers though).

    1. Stephenson
    2. Lorenzen
    3. Iglacias
    4. Garrett
    5. Travieso
    6. Howard
    7. Lively
    8. Romano
    9. Gullion
    10. Moscot
    11. Kivel
    12.Armstrong
    13. Stephens
    14. Strahan
    15. Langfield
    16. Corcino
    17. Mahle
    18. Boyles
    19. Holmberg
    20. Peralta
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Ben Lively more than holding his own at Double-A

    Pretty darn good list, mth. The only one I'd be tempted to drop or bump might be Kivel, although I fully understand his placement. And the one guy I'd almost certainly include is Daniel Wright.

    Another who tempts me, as premature as it is, is the recent high school draftee, Zac Correll. And there are four guys I'd consider, depending on one thing or another. Jacob Constante, though, for whatever reason, his season never took off. Soid Marquez, if he is used as a starter. And possibly Dylan Axlerod or Brett Marshall, if they quality.


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