If you're arguing that perhaps we should call people idiots for disagreeing with our views, I'll agree with you. If your argument is "Well people called Dusty an idiot, so there's no reason I shouldn't call Dr. Kremchek a quack" I'll disagree with the lesson to take from that.
The idea that he only cleared Jr. to play as a ploy from Carl Lindner has only been suggested by you, and is completely baseless. That it was a mistaken diagnosis has not really been proven. And that hamstring injuries from one year led to a shoulder separation in a following year and a patella tendon injury the following year is ridiculous before you even get to tracing it to having to "play while injured."To me, we have enough info to criticize how the Reds handled Jr's leg injuries, and Doc definitely takes some of the blame for that.
People can go on and on, and claim that since we didn't hear every conversation about Jr, maybe Doc is innocent, but sorry.. he was the team doctor that ultimately cleared Jr. If he compromised his evaluation based on what Lindner wanted, that's even worse than making a mistake. If he made a mistake, well, that mistake still screwed the team and Jr, so he needs to be held accountable. Either way, he takes some of the blame.
I won't disagree that the higher celebrity leads to greater scrutiny. But based on the merits, the argument just doesn't match the facts in my opinion.We can look at patterns since Doc became the team doctor. Seems like his surgeries go well (no one is questioning that), but we can certainly in hindsight question his decisions based on what happens afterwards. Again, he wanted the spotlight. This is part of the spotlight, taking the heat along with taking the glory &
hanging with Marty.
Always Red (04-18-2014)
It's strictly my subjective opinion, but myself, and a vast majority who are "defending" Kremchek, don't see him as some sacred cow that can't be criticized. I certainly would agree that he seems to relish that "celebrity" status and it probably does fuel his ego. So if people want to laugh at/criticize him for that - more power to them.
It may be OK, and people, on a message board, certainly have a right to do so .... but it just makes them look somewhat silly IMO due to their lack of qualifications/background in medical science. So they shouldn't get so upset, or be offended, when people disagree with them or call them out on it.Calling for Kremenchek to be fired just because he's annoying is ok on a sports message board.
Heck, even questioning his competency is.
I think woy answers that best....It's just funny how many people are offended when the annual "fire Kremenchek" thread comes up every year.
Dusty, Walt, and the players get it a lot worse. Just because Doc has a fancy degree doesn't give him any special protection.
I'm sure if Dusty had a PhD in baseball (if that existed), he wouldn't have been treated any different.. it's the same thing.
Heck, Walt has one of the best careers of all active GMs, and he gets dissed all the time here.
But to take woy's "apples and hamburgers" thing a bit further, there is a huge difference.......
As fans, we don't need a college education or specialized degree to understand the game of baseball. Sure, a formal educational background is needed when it comes to the business aspect of the game (operating a franchise) as far as being an owner/GM; but I'm referring to possessing an understanding, having (gaining) knowledge on how the game is played, what it takes to succeed, what fails, on that playing field. And as fans, a vast majority of our positive/negative critiques - whether it's criticizing a manager's decisions, or a player's performance, etc - is based on an appreciative knowledge of statistical analysis that is readily available and understandable to all. No, it's not perfect knowledge, but it is a respected/valued knowledge. We can then present a valued "argument" to back up our position. For instance - the criticism of Baker batting Cozart in the #2 spot. It's based on some pretty sound statistical evidence that a vast majority wouldn't/couldn't argue with (mainly OB%). Ad we can (and do) do the same when it comes to critiquing a player's performance good or bad. It doesn't mean we're always going to be right, that others aren't going to disagree, which invokes some pretty intense discussions (threads) on here.... but we're able to do so, and even back up or refute arguments based on available knowledge (facts/present the numbers). We've got some sort of "footing" to stand on.
So the difference is... while we, as fans, may be "qualified" to a certain degree in the above ... we are not qualified ....unless, of course one is a physician/surgeon with an educational background in medical science (sports medicine) .... to be criticizing Kremchek's medical qualifications. Now that doesn't mean one can't criticize. Fire away. And I can understand some fans wanting to raise questions when it comes to certain players, whether it's a situation with Jr, Kearns etc. I just don't think they have all the facts, and especially medical facts. Pretty subjective IMO.
And most importantly.... their criticism is very "selective" while ignoring an overall, valued assessment of his qualifications/performance. If he was as bad as some suggest then he wouldn't be any team's physician/surgeon.
And that doesn't mean that doctors, including Kremchek, haven't made mistakes, even misdiagnoses. No physician is perfect. That's why medical malpractice insurance exists (LOL).
I guess what we need to do is develop some sort of analytical stat... like OPS .... that measures a team doctor's overall performance (success rate). Then we'll know for sure! LOL
Last edited by GAC; 04-19-2014 at 05:45 AM.
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
Always Red (04-19-2014),Hoosier Red (04-19-2014),Joseph (05-19-2014)
Doc Hollywood was on ESPN Radio and said Votto won't miss much time at all and his knee looks excellent. But he is missing his 4th game in a row tonight. I tell you I feel with everything in my being there is something fundamentally wrong with how the Reds deal with injuries.
Chuckie (05-19-2014)
To successfully anaylze a problem you need data, data does not equal hearing a doctor on AM radio for 4 minutes every now and then
Too far removed from Cincinnati to make that call.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
I'm not a tinfoil cap guy but if Votto sits on the bench for another 4-5 days and is then placed on the dl this place is going to explode. Chuckie is going to be coming in full throttle with guns blazing.
Chuckie (05-19-2014)
Things change. If they anticipate Votto being 100% after a couple days of therapy and rest then it makes sense to not DL him. If that turns out to not be the case and the quad isn't responding as they had hoped then they might decide to DL him. That wouldn't be because someone is incompetent that would be because sometimes things change.
Always Red (05-19-2014),Chip R (05-19-2014),dubc47834 (05-19-2014),Larkin Fan (05-19-2014)
"Most of the time?"
Votto's a bit different case because the Reds likely feel as though it's worth it for the team to play short handed for 6-7 games if that means he's back on the field in 7 days instead of 15. I doubt there are many players they'd see as valuable enough to do that.
I don't think this is a particularly wise strategy, but I doubt the decision whether to DL or not DL is his call.
I'm betting he's back for the Cards series.
That would be fine. Except Doc Hollywood said he won't miss much time at all! It has been 4 days! Either give a timetable or if you are unsure. Don't say anything at all. Just say something like we are trying to get Joey back soon. That's all i am saying. The way Doc Hollywood presents info is misleading!
A patient may not have responded as fast as a doctor anticipated? Oh, the humanity! Recovery times are estimates. Read that again, estimates. They are not an exact science and they never will be. Reasonable people understand this.
Always Red (05-19-2014)
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