Is it time for a new team doctor?

[Ghosts of 1990]

I talked to Kremcheck in our company box a while two years ago in 2012 when Votto was having the knee problems. He was nothing short of completely misleading in the info that he put forth. I looked like a complete IDIOT to a couple close friends in relaying that info to them because what followed was nothing short of inconsistent from what Doc Hollywood himself told me. Now, it was none of my business in the first place but he chose to tell me about Votto; more than I ever expected him to and how the surgery went; etc. I would have been fine with "I can't talk about it" rather than getting info that is totally misleading.

As for what he's reported on various injuries, there's no doubt he's been as inaccurate as your local weatherman when it comes to his thoughts on a player's injuries. I don't doubt he's highly regarded and all that but you have to wonder how much an old-boys network it is. He's a big name in the game doesn't necessarily mean he's the best or close to it. That goes with anything.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Does Doc get no credit for having Bruce back less than 3 weeks from knee surgery?

That's more the medical rehab staff I would think than the doctor.

Just trying to give the overall picture. People act as if the Kremchek debate is just about Votto. Or just about (fill-in-the-topic). But there's been a long list of things that some Reds fans have been frustrated with when it comes to Kremchek. Obviously we're in the minority based on this thread. That's fine. I hope I'm wrong and that Kremchek is actually the best medical director in MLB. That would be a good thing for the Reds. But it's my opinion he's very bad.

I have to say based on the chain of events I was privvy to in 2012; the way Kremcheck acted around me at least in regards to the surgery; the things he told me and other peers and then what followed and what actually went down it is my opinion also that something went wrong with that surgery on Votto.

[dougdirt]

Fair enough. I really am trying to see both sides here. Kremchek has clearly rubbed me the wrong way for years and I think there is hard evidence that supports the idea that he's not a good medical director. But I am interested in hearing both sides. I honestly don't have an "agenda" other than giving my honest opinion to fellow Reds fans. I know nothing I say on here is going to cause the Reds to find a new medical director. Just trying to have some discussion about this topic.

And I meant to ask you, earlier in this thread, why did you blow off the fact that Kremchek got such a low rating on the "Rate Your Doctor" site? You made fun of it by calling it "Yelp for doctors." Doesn't Yelp do a pretty good job of giving ratings for restaurants and the like? I just didn't get that dig.

Yelp for doctors is stupid. Most people know what food is supposed to taste like. They have been dealing with it their entire lives. 1% of people are qualified enough to rate a doctors ability and those people probably aren't going on "Doctor Yelp" to rate them.

[dougdirt]

Douglas, I don't think they knew it was botched when they cleared Votto to go through sliding drills. Like with most meniscus surgeries, 2-3 weeks had passed and they probably said "Time to test it out." Jay Bruce is not the exception, he's the norm when it comes to meniscus surgeries. So, they probably thought enough time had passed since Votto's first surgery and tried the sliding drills. Then Joey realized something wasn't right. Maybe it was just the slide. Maybe the first surgery was botched. I would love if there were a way to find out. I'd put my money where my mouth is. And I'm admitting it's just my opinion that the first Votto surgery was botched. But some of the other stuff (Griffey, Edmonds, etc) is fact, not opinion.

You've never had meniscus surgery. I know this to be a fact. Why? Because you have some assumption that the guy who got it wouldn't know it wasn't right. Having had it myself a few times, I do know what it's like when there is still some meniscus issues in the knee. You know it. You feel it. Joey Votto would have felt it and he would have said something. Quit talking about it. You are wrong. There is no chance at all that you are right. So just stop.

[Chuckie]

Well, I'm at least trying to see both sides. Doug, you are as closed-minded about this topic as one could possibly be. There is no room for discussion on the other side because you said so? OK.

[dougdirt]

Well, I'm at least trying to see both sides. Doug, you are as closed-minded about this topic as one could possibly be. There is no room for discussion on the other side because you said so? OK.

You aren't trying to see both sides. You are literally making up one side out of thin stinking air with absolutely ZERO evidence.

I can play that game too. Walt Jocketty is a space alien from planet Zumucookorat. How do I know this? He looked into the sky one night. That's my evidence. You better see my side of it or you are closed minded.

[Chuckie]

Yeah, that's the same thing. Jocketty being an alien and Kremchek being (IMO) incompetent are parallels. (FYI: you obnoxiously writing in all caps in 100 font comes across extremely childish. But roll with it if you like it.)

I've stated numerous times in this thread "evidence" as to why I think Kremchek is not good for the Reds. I've also posted opinion. Your posts are adding nothing to this thread. If you don't like the topic, no need to open it.

[dougdirt]

Yeah, that's the same thing. Jocketty being an alien and Kremchek being (IMO) incompetent are parallels. (FYI: you obnoxiously writing in all caps in 100 font comes across extremely childish. But roll with it if you like it.)

I've stated numerous times in this thread "evidence" as to why I think Kremchek is not good for the Reds. I've also posted opinion. Your posts are adding nothing to this thread. If you don't like the topic, no need to open it.

Was my making he font red not also obnoxious? I was hoping it would add to it, because I was most certainly trying to be about as obnoxious as possible with it.

My last post adds plenty to this thread. It is a direct argument against your insane and made up accusations. Talk about actual evidence if you want to. Bring up the Griffey thing. Bring up some other stuff. While I may not agree with it, at least there is a chance there is something to it. Not a big one, but some. But the Votto botched surgery crap is just that. It's a big, steaming, fat bowl of dog crap. And I will keep countering that insane accusation every time that you make it to point out how insane that it is. Maybe that makes me a crazy person. I don't care. I hate crap like that and I can't help but point out its insanity.

[GAC]

Chuckie, just out of curiosity, can you give us a definition of "botched?"

I'll give you mine....

Me, on the fairway of the sixth hole this past Sunday, about 50 yards out, trying to sand wedge it onto the green. I BOTCHED the #@$!! out of it

Next time I'll try to remember to curse Kremcheck.

[GAC]

I've stated numerous times in this thread "evidence" as to why I think Kremchek is not good for the Reds. I've also posted opinion.

I think you're doing more at presenting your subjective opinion as evidence, rather then real evidence, that Kremcheck is an incompetent physician. Especially when you're highlighting isolated situations, whether it's Jr, Votto, or whoever, and acknowledging you don't know all the facts/details in those situations.

Obviously you're allowed your opinion (what you think). But listening to you on this thread has shown me you're being far more prejudicial then objective because you continue to totally ignore the total body of the man's work over 25 years of practice. What is his success rate? How many careers has he saved/prolonged? That seems to be inconsequential to you.

[TRF]

Yeah, that's the same thing. Jocketty being an alien and Kremchek being (IMO) incompetent are parallels. (FYI: you obnoxiously writing in all caps in 100 font comes across extremely childish. But roll with it if you like it.)

I've stated numerous times in this thread "evidence" as to why I think Kremchek is not good for the Reds. I've also posted opinion. Your posts are adding nothing to this thread. If you don't like the topic, no need to open it.

so now Kremchek is incompetent? despite a rep as being one of the best in the country, with clients from other teams?

yep, no agenda here.