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Thread: Rocco and Billy

  1. #16
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    With the amount of pushups Billy is doing on a daily basis he is going to have a huge upper body by July.

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  4. #17
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's a long season. Mesoraco had a hot start, he does have power, but traditionally he struggles against RHP. It will take more than two weeks for me to agree that he has overcome that.

    Hamilton was given a tall task and it's way too soon to know if he will be successful. I do believe the Reds are heavily overusing him in the early going.

    I think neither is yet deserving of euphoria or despair. We'll see.
    No euphoria. Just optimism. I think the kids are alright -- though all your points are well taken.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  5. #18
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's a long season. Mesoraco had a hot start, he does have power, but traditionally he struggles against RHP. It will take more than two weeks for me to agree that he has overcome that.

    Hamilton was given a tall task and it's way too soon to know if he will be successful. I do believe the Reds are heavily overusing him in the early going.

    I think neither is yet deserving of euphoria or despair. We'll see.
    Rocco's swing and approach looks completely different than from his first few seasons. He's not chasing offspeed pitches off the plate, and pouncing on good pitches when he gets them. Maybe it's just a hot streak, but it looks like a true improvement.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. #19
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Rocco's swing and approach looks completely different than from his first few seasons. He's not chasing offspeed pitches off the plate, and pouncing on good pitches when he gets them. Maybe it's just a hot streak, but it looks like a true improvement.
    Sure. And Cozart had a completely different approach late last season. Whenever a player suddenly gets hot he has a different approach.

    The trick is not the ability to get hot. Any decent major leaguer will have hot streaks. The trick is to sustain the performance sufficiently to result in good full season numbers.

    There's no denying that Mes has good power and IMO decent strike zone judgment. But I'm not yet convinced that he can handle right handed pitching throughout a full season. How will he handle his first slump? He's confident now, but how about when he's 0 for 12?

    I know he's a high profile prospect. But I reserve judgment with hope that he's the real thing.

  7. #20
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Sure. And Cozart had a completely different approach late last season. Whenever a player suddenly gets hot he has a different approach.

    The trick is not the ability to get hot. Any decent major leaguer will have hot streaks. The trick is to sustain the performance sufficiently to result in good full season numbers.

    There's no denying that Mes has good power and IMO decent strike zone judgment. But I'm not yet convinced that he can handle right handed pitching throughout a full season. How will he handle his first slump? He's confident now, but how about when he's 0 for 12?

    I know he's a high profile prospect. But I reserve judgment with hope that he's the real thing.
    Fair enough. But he was not playing enough the past 2 years. I'm excited to see the man perform with the job in hand.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-b...evin-mesoraco/

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  9. #21
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Fair enough. But he was not playing enough the past 2 years. I'm excited to see the man perform with the job in hand.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-b...evin-mesoraco/
    Mesoraco had 352 PAs last year. He may get 50 more as the "primary" catcher but he was hardly a bench warming backup last season

  10. #22
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Mesoraco had 352 PAs last year. He may get 50 more as the "primary" catcher but he was hardly a bench warming backup last season
    He was not the primary catcher last year and unless Hanigan was dinged up, he rarely started 2 games in a row. Can't get settled in like that.

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  12. #23
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    He was not the primary catcher last year and unless Hanigan was dinged up, he rarely started 2 games in a row. Can't get settled in like that.
    Mes played 103 games last year with 352 PAs. Most catchers generally sit a fair number of games, this is a reasonably high number. Hanigan didn't play much of the year, only 75 games 260 PAs.

    Those are the numbers. 103 out of 162 is most games. Mes was thirteenth in PAs among all NL catchers last year.

    Among other absences, Hanigan missed a full month in July-August last year. I'm sure Mes was aware of this and knew he had an every day chance then. It wasn't a secret.

    I'm willing to accept that Mesoraco just wasn't ready the last two years and has more experience and confidence now. But the notion that he didn't have an opportunity is a fallacy IMO.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-15-2014 at 01:23 AM.

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  14. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    This line-up has done pretty much as we should have expected this year. The last couple of days they've lit-up a pair of mediocre left handed starting pitchers and continued hitting when they knocked him out and got into the soft underbelly of the bullpen. That's exactly what I'd expect a line-up filled with Medium power, splitty RH bats to do. Mesoraco has always done well against LHP. His HRs the last two days were against RHP, but those guys are pitching early in the game after the starter was knocked-out for a reason. Encouraged by Mes, but not ready to conclude anything yet. He and Pena can be passable I suppose as long as the PT is doled out wisely and Mes isn't exposed to really bad match-ups. As he continues to hit, then push the envelope with more and more exposure to RH pitching. He's hot right now. I'll give him that. His HRs against a couple RH long relievers have earned him a little more rope IMO. Fingers crossed.

    Hamilton is a different story. He just doesn't hit the ball very hard and this unrealistic expectation of him beating out nearly every ground ball was never something we should have expected. Defenders have seen enough to know how much time they have now and I'd guess they've adjusted a bit. I still have hopes for Hamilton, but major league pitching is different and time in AAA to hit against guys who have some craftiness to add to their stuff seems very important to a guy like him. Skipping him to the big leagues prior to being successful down there has always seemed like a losing proposition to me. He can still learn at the major league level, but I'd personally prefer his development time not be part of a major league game where the team is competing for a play-off spot. Handing a spot to a guy like that is a move for a rebuilding team with no post-season aspirations. Competitive teams shouldn't be giving away the outs by playing a guy like that IMO. I personally hope that he goes down when Schumaker returns and we see a Skippy/Heisey platoon in CF. If the team wants to keep Hamilton on the bench in a role similar to the one he played at the end of 2013, he'd be quite a weapon, but I wouldn't trash his development like that at this point. Maybe in August after 300 or so more PAs in AAA.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  16. #25
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Hamilton is a different story. He just doesn't hit the ball very hard and this unrealistic expectation of him beating out nearly every ground ball was never something we should have expected. Defenders have seen enough to know how much time they have now and I'd guess they've adjusted a bit. I still have hopes for Hamilton, but major league pitching is different and time in AAA to hit against guys who have some craftiness to add to their stuff seems very important to a guy like him. Skipping him to the big leagues prior to being successful down there has always seemed like a losing proposition to me. He can still learn at the major league level, but I'd personally prefer his development time not be part of a major league game where the team is competing for a play-off spot. Handing a spot to a guy like that is a move for a rebuilding team with no post-season aspirations. Competitive teams shouldn't be giving away the outs by playing a guy like that IMO. I personally hope that he goes down when Schumaker returns and we see a Skippy/Heisey platoon in CF. If the team wants to keep Hamilton on the bench in a role similar to the one he played at the end of 2013, he'd be quite a weapon, but I wouldn't trash his development like that at this point. Maybe in August after 300 or so more PAs in AAA.
    Completely agreed with all of this.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  17. #26
    Member Playadlc's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Anyone see Harold Reynolds (gulp) breaking down Billy's swing on MLBN? It was actually kinda interesting. He showed how Hamilton is double striding now because of the lack of comfortability with his open stance. He didn't have an open stance last season and Harold thinks he should close his stance some. Talked about Hamilton having a much more defensive swing now.
    DLC11@Insightbb.com

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  19. #27
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by Playadlc View Post
    Anyone see Harold Reynolds (gulp) breaking down Billy's swing on MLBN? It was actually kinda interesting. He showed how Hamilton is double striding now because of the lack of comfortability with his open stance. He didn't have an open stance last season and Harold thinks he should close his stance some. Talked about Hamilton having a much more defensive swing now.
    Hamilton is a mess. He has had multiple swings this season already. If you follow me on twitter you have probably read it already, but the first series of the year Hamilton simply had a "slap at the ball" swing. He was out front and just throwing the bat at the ball. In the second Cardinals series he stayed back and actually swung hard, trying to hit the ball hard.

    He has been that way for years with the switch hitting. I don't know if it something people are trying to work into his philosophy, or it is something he does (some of it is clearly that he struggles to recognize a pitch and winds up out front and just throwing the bat at the ball to make contact - but not always, it is clearly a planned action at times).

    When Hamilton is actually hitting, he is staying back and trying to drive the ball. I honestly wonder if there just aren't too many people giving him ideas. Bunt. Hit it on the ground and run (this is a terrible idea). Just make contact. Stay back and drive the ball. You can see changes in his swing as if that is happening. Maybe it's just a complete lack of confidence on his part because the big leagues are freaking hard and he is still dealing with the learning curve of hitting left handed. But it wouldn't surprise me if he is hearing far too many things and trying them all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, Devin Mesoraco is on fire.

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  21. #28
    There's no Walt only Zuul villain612's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Also, Devin Mesoraco is on fire.

    I think Mez would have to cool off to be on fire.

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    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

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  23. #29
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    Was Hamilton actually safe on the steal attempt last night?
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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  25. #30
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Rocco and Billy

    It was really bang-bang. He looked safe after a bunch of replays, but the throw beat him to the bag by quite a bit.


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