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Thread: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

  1. #46
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Leake is in his 5th year of service time and he barely has more WAR than Latos produced....last season or Cuetor put up in 2012 alone. Homer has outproduced him in just Homer's 2012-2013 seasons.

    Is Leake the best of the bunch? Well, if so some really dramatic and really bad stuff would have to happen to the rest of the bunch.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  4. #47
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    What Mike Leake has going for himself, above all else, is durability. He's extremely athletic and not a max effort guy. He reminds me of Mark Beuhrle. He's more of a Beuhrle-lite, but he's got so much movement and good command such that he could have an awfully long career.

    I would not be surprised if when all is said and done, he winds up with more career WAR than any of the other Reds starters.
    Should the WAR involved with his hitting and fielding be included? I would think so.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  5. #48
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Mike Leake is the one I would trade of the bunch, especially if he keeps pitching like this.
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #49
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Leake is in his 5th year of service time and he barely has more WAR than Latos produced....last season or Cuetor put up in 2012 alone. Homer has outproduced him in just Homer's 2012-2013 seasons.

    Is Leake the best of the bunch? Well, if so some really dramatic and really bad stuff would have to happen to the rest of the bunch.
    Homer is going to WAR with the HR ball this year.

  7. #50
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark69 View Post
    The point to the thread is - Leake's overall numbers could end up being better, period. All factors included. He's underrated because he doesn't have a power arm or blow people away, so therefore he doesn't stick out or he's not who you think of when you think of top pitchers. It's bottom line - when all their careers are over - Leake could end up have better numbers than all of them.
    Which overall numbers? I find it very difficult to believe Leake will even remotely approach Latos, Homer, Cueto and even Cingrani in Ks and K/BB.

  8. #51
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Leake is in his 5th year of service time and he barely has more WAR than Latos produced....last season or Cuetor put up in 2012 alone. Homer has outproduced him in just Homer's 2012-2013 seasons.

    Is Leake the best of the bunch? Well, if so some really dramatic and really bad stuff would have to happen to the rest of the bunch.
    What would your plan be moving forward with Leake, Latos and Cueto with regards to contracts/trades/etc?

  9. #52
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark69 View Post
    The point to the thread is - Leake's overall numbers could end up being better, period. All factors included. He's underrated because he doesn't have a power arm or blow people away, so therefore he doesn't stick out or he's not who you think of when you think of top pitchers. It's bottom line - when all their careers are over - Leake could end up have better numbers than all of them.
    As of today, Leake, in his 5th year of service time, has posted 5.1 WAR. For their careers, Latos has 14.5, Cueto has 13.1, Homer has 10.2, Arroyo (everyone's favorite comp for Leake) has 23.1 in his age 37 season. Cingrini has posted 1.8 WAR in only 120 IP.

    I personally find it unlikely that Leake will be starting in his age 37 season. But assuming Latos etc quit pitching today either through injury or retiring to join a monastary or whatever, it's not a great bet that Leake overcomes a Cueto/Latos number. Now assuming that the rest of the bunch doesn't become monks (and lets face it as bets go that's a safe one because if you remember, the Padres didn't want Latos), Leake would be chasing guys who almost certainly would be out producing him over the next several years. Heck, it's not even a safe bet that Leake will have more career WAR than Cingrini when Leake is set to hit the market.

    It runs a little deeper than Leake goes under the radar because he throws low on the radar gun. The other guys are better true talent arms. BTW, putting Leake into a realistic context isn't bashing Leake.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Does he have to have more than the others in every category to be considered the best of bunch? That's not what I'm saying. Maybe he won't be better in every category, but I think he gets overlooked because he doesn't blow people away. It's not a slight to the other guys - I just think it will be interesting to see how their careers play out.

  12. #54
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    He doesn't get overlooked, he's simply not as good as the others.

    And again, it's not bashing Leake, the Reds have a really good starting rotation. There were plenty of years in the 2000's where Leake would have been the Reds best pitcher.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  14. #55
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark69 View Post
    Of the five starters in the Reds rotation (counting Latos and not Simon), Mike Leake could be the best of the bunch before their careers are all said and done. He doesn't have the power arm, but he can pitch and has a huge ticker. Not bad with the bat in his hands either.
    I think it's likely he WILL be the best of a the (pretty good) bunch when it's all over.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    What would your plan be moving forward with Leake, Latos and Cueto with regards to contracts/trades/etc?
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...=1#post3066402
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #57
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    I think it's likely he WILL be the best of a the (pretty good) bunch when it's all over.
    Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  17. #58
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Worth noting that Latos is actually younger than Leake.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  18. #59
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    As of today, Leake, in his 5th year of service time, has posted 5.1 WAR. For their careers, Latos has 14.5, Cueto has 13.1, Homer has 10.2, Arroyo (everyone's favorite comp for Leake) has 23.1 in his age 37 season. Cingrini has posted 1.8 WAR in only 120 IP.

    I personally find it unlikely that Leake will be starting in his age 37 season. But assuming Latos etc quit pitching today either through injury or retiring to join a monastary or whatever, it's not a great bet that Leake overcomes a Cueto/Latos number. Now assuming that the rest of the bunch doesn't become monks (and lets face it as bets go that's a safe one because if you remember, the Padres didn't want Latos), Leake would be chasing guys who almost certainly would be out producing him over the next several years. Heck, it's not even a safe bet that Leake will have more career WAR than Cingrini when Leake is set to hit the market.

    It runs a little deeper than Leake goes under the radar because he throws low on the radar gun. The other guys are better true talent arms. BTW, putting Leake into a realistic context isn't bashing Leake.
    So WAR is the ONLY way to judge a pitcher?

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake, Best of the Bunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    So WAR is the ONLY way to judge a pitcher?
    Yes, yes. That is exactly the arguement that was made!

    But you're welcome to construct another statistical one for the sake of discussion.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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