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Thread: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

  1. #136
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Whenever people use certain stats and ignore others, I find they're just trying to support whatever agenda they have.
    Let me show you what that looks like...

    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrCody View Post
    The real fact is Hamilton is over .300 for the last 7 games. If you remove his first week against the Cards, he has hit something like .280.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

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  4. #137
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    What I have taken away from this thread: People have no clue just how good of a hitter Barry Bonds was.

  5. #138
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What I have taken away from this thread: People have no clue just how good of a hitter Barry Bonds was.
    Bonds was a great hitter before BALCO. The roids just made him a great POWER hitter.
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

  6. #139
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrCody View Post
    Bonds was a great hitter before BALCO. The roids just made him a great POWER hitter.
    What does that have to do with anything?

  7. #140
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    How is he going to learn to hit leadoff, steal bases, etc at the bottom of the order?
    Don't worry about the short term cost of Billy batting leadoff. It's really not that big of a deal.
    It's certainly not going to be the difference in the Reds making or missing the playoffs.
    Now, in the playoffs if he has a 250 OBP for the entire year, then yes.. move him to #8 then.
    Reds' chances of making playoffs aren't looking good now and you still want Hamilton in the leadoff spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Through 17 games 2014: 66 RS, 60 RA
    Through 17 games 2013: 93 RS, 65 RA

    Maybe there's something to this Choo vs. Hamilton thing?
    Another way to look at things is to order the batting slots by the leveraged value of the out. In plain English (sort of), we want to know how costly making an out is by each lineup position, based on the base-out situations they most often find themselves in, and then weighted by how often each lineup spot comes to the plate. Here's how the lineup spots rank in the importance of avoiding outs:

    #1, #4, #2, #5, #3, #6, #7, #8, #9
    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/200...your-lineup-by

  8. #141
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What does that have to do with anything?
    Hat does Bonds have to do with Hamilton?
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

  9. #142
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsLvr View Post
    Ha. Ha. The difference between below average runners and above average runners in Scouting is TWO tenths of a second and you're saying ONLY a tenth of a second faster than the fastest runners. That's pretty significant.
    No, I said LESS THAN a tenth of a second. Billy Hamilton has been timed, by me, as fast as 3.64 from the left side to first base on a swing. I have seen more than a handful of guys below 3.74. I have timed guys that most people on this board have never heard of below 3.75. Do you think if there were hitters even in the realm of Barry Bonds at the plate that anyone on this board would have not heard of him? OF course not. That is my point. Barry Bonds hitting ability is so much more rare and unseen than Billy Hamilton's speed it isn't even funny. The two simply aren't comparable. Guys are close to being as fast as Hamilton and there are a few guys in any given year in the game that are close enough to it. There simply aren't guys close to the hitter that Bonds was until you get back to Ted Williams or Babe Ruth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrCody View Post
    Hat does Bonds have to do with Hamilton?
    You clearly didn't read the thread. Someone compared the rarity of Hamilton's speed to the hitting ability to Bonds in its rarity. They aren't close.

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  11. #143
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    I agree with Doug on this one. Nobody is saying Billy isn't the fastest guy in the league. But the actual difference between him and several other guys is miniscule. Less than a 1/10 of a second...think about that for a minute or two.

    There's a bunch more to stealing bases than just being fast. Thus far in the bigs, we've seen that he is fast. But we haven't seen good reads of the pitcher, solid secondary leads, excellent jumps...at least not regularly. Quite often it's a bang-bang play or even the ball beating him there by quite a bit. He's got a long way to go before he should be compared to Henderson, Raines, etc. The only time I put him in with that group is when I talk about the effect he has on the pitcher and defense when he's on base. The amount of distraction he is causing. That's on par with those all-time great thieves. But that's mostly just because of his reputation coming into the league...not MLB results.

    He's currently 7 for 9 in SB's. It really should be 6 for 9 or even 5 for 9. With a halfway decent tag, he'd be toast on two of those for sure.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 04-21-2014 at 12:18 PM.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  12. #144
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    I usually side with you, but when scouts say Billy Hamilton has the fastest time they've ever clocked from home to first, it's not fair to say others are close, so it doesn't matter... He's the best ever as far as measurable speed goes, and it's not arguable.
    That was in ST though right?

    Fastest guys in MLB history Back during the "Field Day" era they used to have races around the bases as a show of speed:

    Evar Swanson – 5’9 – CF/RF
    Most Steals in a season: 33

    Once again, a onetime Red. (note a pattern?) Swanson etched his name in the speed annals on 9/15/1929, at a field day held at Redland Field between games of a doubleheader. A $100 prize was offered up if anyone could circle the bases from a standing start in less than 13.8 seconds and beat Lobert’s aforementioned major league record. Among the participants were Swanson and former University of Cincinnati track and baseball star Ethan Allen. Swanson was able to circumnavigate the bases in full uniform in 13.4 seconds for a MLB record. No mention was made of Allen’s finish time. Swanson also played a little pro football and was most likely the first Red to also log time in the NFL.
    Hamilton's inside the park HR was in that neighborhood.


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  14. #145
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Again, what kind of logic is that? He also could be 8 for 9 when you consider he looked safe on one of his CS.

    He's 20/23 in his major league career stealing bases. That's really good.

    And you know what could make the difference on these bang bang plays? A tenth of a second.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  16. #146
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by junkhead View Post
    Reds' chances of making playoffs aren't looking good now and you still want Hamilton in the leadoff spot?





    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/200...your-lineup-by
    The Reds chances of making the playoffs are pretty much no different now than they were in Spring Training so I wouldn't say that chances "aren't looking to good," but I absolutely keep running Hamilton out there in the leadoff spot every game. It would be different if the Reds had another high OBP guy to do it, but outside of Votto this is a low OBP team. I'm going to be interested to see what Votto's numbers look like with Hamilton on base compared to when he's not on.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  18. #147
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    How is he going to learn to hit leadoff, steal bases, etc at the bottom of the order?
    Don't worry about the short term cost of Billy batting leadoff. It's really not that big of a deal.
    It's certainly not going to be the difference in the Reds making or missing the playoffs.
    Now, in the playoffs if he has a 250 OBP for the entire year, then yes.. move him to #8 then.

    If he hits lead off all year and has a 250 OBP Price and Walt should be fired.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  19. #148
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    If he hits lead off all year and has a 250 OBP Price and Walt should be fired.
    He wouldn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  20. #149
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    How is he going to learn to hit leadoff, steal bases, etc at the bottom of the order?
    Don't worry about the short term cost of Billy batting leadoff. It's really not that big of a deal.
    It's certainly not going to be the difference in the Reds making or missing the playoffs.
    Now, in the playoffs if he has a 250 OBP for the entire year, then yes.. move him to #8 then.
    It fascinates me that people try and use a different approach in different parts of the lineup.

    Look, I know that it happens. But it shouldn't. Get on base. Hit the ball hard. Those should be your goals no matter where you are batting in the lineup. Period.

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  22. #150
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Karl Ravech destroying Billy Hamilton on the BBTN podcast

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    He wouldn't.
    He wouldn't what?
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."


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