Enough of Zach Cozart?

[dougdirt]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on Cozart being a major league SS.

You clearly have no concept of the reality of the situation that is currently the shortstop position in Major League Baseball. Here is the OPS for the top 30 shortstops in baseball last season by PA.

.931
.815
.791
.784
.780
.777
.772
.752
.738
.736
.735
.704
.700
.698
.693
.692
.683
.674
.667
.665
.659
.656
.650
.631
.611
.589
.565
.559
.548


Those were your STARTERS in the game last year. There were more guys UNDER .700 than over it.

[Ohayou]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on Cozart being a major league SS.

I know it's hard to believe, but his slash line of .254/.284/.381 last year was about league average for shortstops, maybe even a little better.

Didi and Asdrubal Cabrera are the only two I'd look at. Again, though, it'd probably take an arm like Lively or Lorenzen to net Didi. Probably more. The most I'd offer is Lorenzen and Barnhart.

[powersackers]

Chris Nelson could be called up. Send Cozart down to find his swing?

[dougdirt]

Chris Nelson could be called up. Send Cozart down to find his swing?

Well that would be an option if Nelson could play shortstop every day. But he can't. Well, he can, but you sure don't want him to.

[Marc D]

While I try to stay positive, it seems the ship has sailed on the Reds anemic hitting shortstop. We spent far too many seasons watching and waiting on the whiffing Drew Stubbs to turn it around to not become a bit sick to our stomachs watching another bad movie in Cozart. The man is 28 and he is what he is. A non-hitting shortstop on a team with 3 consistent hitters. Moving Hamilton to short and placing Heisey in CF would provide some offense that this team lacks.

If it seems like putting chris heisey in a MLB lineup everyday will help the offense then there probably is no help for the offense.

[DocRed]

You clearly have no concept of the reality of the situation that is currently the shortstop position in Major League Baseball. Here is the OPS for the top 30 shortstops in baseball last season by PA.

.931
.815
.791
.784
.780
.777
.772
.752
.738
.736
.735
.704
.700
.698
.693
.692
.683
.674
.667
.665
.659
.656
.650
.631
.611
.589
.565
.559
.548


Those were your STARTERS in the game last year. There were more guys UNDER .700 than over it.

I'm not a Cozart hater by any means (like I said earlier, this discussion is moot since we don't have a better option)....but I'm not sure these numbers help you argument :P

[Red Raindog]

Chris Nelson could be called up. Send Cozart down to find his swing?

well he did play SS 10 games in AAA 2013 (0 errors) and 40 games in 2011 (8 errors - .955 F%) and 52 games in 2010 (14 errors - .938 F%) and none in 2012

not sure I'd just plunk him there

[dougdirt]

I'm not a Cozart hater by any means (like I said earlier, this discussion is moot since we don't have a better option)....but I'm not sure these numbers help you argument :P

My argument was that Cozart is a starter. Those numbers show that he was among the 30 best hitters at the position and that the position is incredibly weak these days.

[AmarilloRed]

I think all Reds fans got a bit spoiled by having Larkin and Concepcion in the recent past. You just aren't going to come across a lot of shortstops like that.

[malcontent]

You are right -- currently he is a .111 hitter --- but I'm still with you --- that said - I'd dump him in a heartbeat if there was a better option but someone needs to give me a name to ponder besides BH

References to time machines aside, I'd like to see Jocketty get Gregorius. LHH, good speed, some pop and plate discipline....and probably a better fielder than Cozart.

[malcontent]

With Mes hitting the Reds should have room for an all glove SS. CF, LF, 3B - none of those spots produce enough right now.

After watching today's game I think you should add 2B to that list.

Jocketty's mantra of "pitching and defense, defense and pitching...." must work wonders for his mental health if he's actually watching the same collection of hackers I am.

And yoga. He has to be doing some yoga.

[Marc D]

After watching today's game I think you should add 2B to that list.

Jocketty's mantra of "pitching and defense, defense and pitching...." must work wonders for his mental health if he's actually watching the same collection of hackers I am.

And yoga. He has to be doing some yoga.

I think Darwin Barney would be Walts dream 2B.

Dependable defense, non existent bat. What's not to love?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Probably not as many, but still some because he still isn't very good. The crop of shortstops currently in the game is a joke and you are always going to want to get a .285 OBP out of your lineup.

But why do you think that is? Simple. Because player development over the past 10 years or so has a certain idea in place. They see a solid hitter, but his defense at short is lacking...they move him off of short ASAP so he has time to learn a new position instead of working with him on his defensive shortcomings at short. Cozart doesn't have fantastic range or speed. His arm isn't outstanding. He's just rock solid across the board. Sure, I'd love to have an Ozzie Smith over there with the glove with a Ripken or Larkin ability at the plate, but it's not going to happen but once or twice in a generation. Today's fans have gotten totally spoiled by that run of slick fielding/great hitting shortstops of the 90's and 00's. I really wish they'd stop with the concept of quickly moving a guy off of short so early.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I know it's hard to believe, but his slash line of .254/.284/.381 last year was about league average for shortstops, maybe even a little better.

Didi and Asdrubal Cabrera are the only two I'd look at. Again, though, it'd probably take an arm like Lively or Lorenzen to net Didi. Probably more. The most I'd offer is Lorenzen and Barnhart.

I like Didi, but does anybody really see him as a significant upgrade? Cabrera would be awesome...but no clue what it would take to land him. And which Cabrera would that be? The solid all around SS from a few years ago, or the Cozart clone from last year?

Regardless of targeting Cabrera or not...the Indians, I'm maintained for a while now, are the team we should be looking to deal with. Outside of Asdrubal, if you look at their top prospects their #1, 6, 8, 12 & 13th prospects are ALL shortstops. Several of them are on the cusp of impacting the bigs. Simply put, the Indians are going to need to make some deals just to make room for the kids. Francisco Lindor, their #1 prospect is in AA right now...from everything I've read, his glove will play RIGHT NOW. Jose Ramirez plays for the Columbus Clippers (AAA), he mostly plays 2nd but can easily handle short with the reps.

I'm content with Cozart for now as I feel his bat will come around to his norms. But that doesn't change the fact that our farm is very thin in shortstops...a deal should be made regardless of Cozy's struggles.

[malcontent]

I like Didi, but does anybody really see him as a significant upgrade? Cabrera would be awesome...but no clue what it would take to land him. And which Cabrera would that be? The solid all around SS from a few years ago, or the Cozart clone from last year?

Regardless of targeting Cabrera or not...the Indians, I'm maintained for a while now, are the team we should be looking to deal with. Outside of Asdrubal, if you look at their top prospects their #1, 6, 8, 12 & 13th prospects are ALL shortstops. Several of them are on the cusp of impacting the bigs. Simply put, the Indians are going to need to make some deals just to make room for the kids. Francisco Lindor, their #1 prospect is in AA right now...from everything I've read, his glove will play RIGHT NOW. Jose Ramirez plays for the Columbus Clippers (AAA), he mostly plays 2nd but can easily handle short with the reps.

I'm content with Cozart for now as I feel his bat will come around to his norms. But that doesn't change the fact that our farm is very thin in shortstops...a deal should be made regardless of Cozy's struggles.

Interesting analysis. Cabrera's bat would be a huge upgrade, IMO. With a change of scenery probably helping out. Can't believe he's still only 28. But then there's the $ factor.

I actually think Didi could be a significant upgrade. And if he is available, he'd only cost a prospect or two, question of course being which prospect(s). AZ needs pitching, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Aside from the fact that Jocketty moves with molasses speed and never seems bothered to watch his hackers display incredibly long periods of futility at the plate.