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Thread: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

  1. #31
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    If this were BP would we have a problem with the way this was handled. All winter long all I heard was how he didn't hustle...now its ok not to hustle. We cant have it both way fellas!!!
    You can check it out if you want to, but I know for a fact that I said during the offseason that he doesn't hustle down the line on infield grounders and that I don't care a bit about it either. Maybe others said something different, but I haven't changed my mind about it at all.

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  3. #32
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    Doug, I'm not saying he needs to sprint out every ball no matter where the ball is hit, but he can put forth some kind of effort. Most guys at least jog down the line thru first base, Harper never even made it to first. Just my opinion tho man!
    What's the point of not making it to first base when the first baseman made the catch when he was 60 feet down the line? Infield pop ups happen all of the time and runners round first base heading to second just in case they drop it. Ever see someone go to second base once the catch has been made? Probably not because there isn't much of a point.

  4. #33
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    But the 1% could happen in a game you wind up winning. Teams often go to the playoffs or go home depending on the outcome of a single game. It matters.
    And then a guy pulls up lame and misses four weeks and you finish 4 games back.

    You aren't winning or losing a game because you didn't sprint to first base on a ground ball to the pitcher.

  5. #34
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You can check it out if you want to, but I know for a fact that I said during the offseason that he doesn't hustle down the line on infield grounders and that I don't care a bit about it either. Maybe others said something different, but I haven't changed my mind about it at all.
    I wasn't referring to anything you said, I have no idea what your opinion of BP on this issue was until you just mentioned it. I just remember quite a few comments about the issue regarding BP

  6. #35
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What's the point of not making it to first base when the first baseman made the catch when he was 60 feet down the line? Infield pop ups happen all of the time and runners round first base heading to second just in case they drop it. Ever see someone go to second base once the catch has been made? Probably not because there isn't much of a point.
    That's a different situation, at least the effort was being put forth. Regardless i just don't think Williams was wrong on this, and at least publicly Harper didn't either.

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  8. #36
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And then a guy pulls up lame and misses four weeks and you finish 4 games back.

    You aren't winning or losing a game because you didn't sprint to first base on a ground ball to the pitcher.
    How many guys have pulled up lame simply running to first? Percentage would be roughly the same as pitchers bobbling the ball or throwing it into right field.

    You don't change your approach.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

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  10. #37
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And then a guy pulls up lame and misses four weeks and you finish 4 games back.

    You aren't winning or losing a game because you didn't sprint to first base on a ground ball to the pitcher.
    Williams was quoted extensively in that story, and he never mentioned "sprinting" to the base. He did mention not running all the way to the bag, and actually gave a situation why that could be important in ways other than just effort.

    “He’s an exciting player,” Williams said. “People come to pay money and watch him play, and watch him play the way he can play. And it’s pretty exciting. It’s pretty dynamic. But there’s another side to it. The other side is, regardless of how the ball comes off the bat or regardless of how he’s feeling about an at-bat, he must maintain that intensity and that aggressiveness. And that means running all the way to first base and touching the base.
    There’s a million reasons why. The transfer rules that we’ve seen lately. What if that guy bobbles the ball as he’s throwing it around? If he doesn’t touch the base, he’s out. If he’s in the dugout, he’s automatically out. Beyond the all the just-run-90-feet stuff, there’s a real, tangible rule behind it now. So we must do that. And he understands that.”

  11. #38
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And then a guy pulls up lame and misses four weeks and you finish 4 games back.

    You aren't winning or losing a game because you didn't sprint to first base on a ground ball to the pitcher.
    I basically agree with what you are saying, but not running to first base is the baseball equivalent of the office worker who shows up 4 or 5 minutes late every day. It probably doesn't really impact his productivity, but it's a workplace with multiple personalities and what makes one guy so special that he can skirt the cultural norms of the collective?

    "You're getting paid, show up on time" is the office version of "you're getting paid, run down the line." Seems simple to me really and I support Williams in this one.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  13. #39
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Bryce Harper is not getting paid to run down the line. Bryce Harper is getting paid to get hits and play defense. You can run down the line just fine. Most Americans can. But they don't pay for that because we can all do that. They pay for being able to hit the baseball against the best pitchers in the world. And to play defense well enough when the other best hitters in the world are at the plate.

  14. #40
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Isn't this one of the things that many criticized Dusty for - and perhaps ultimately why he was let go - not holding players accountable? Wasn't it one of things that many lauded Price for - accountability? Matt Williams laid down the law in spring training - Harper violated that law - and Williams was holding him accountable. First-time manager making a statement - everyone on that team will take him seriously. Perhaps, a bit extreme, but it appears that Harper has taken the "reprimand" for what it is.

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  16. #41
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Bryce Harper is not getting paid to run down the line. Bryce Harper is getting paid to get hits and play defense. You can run down the line just fine. Most Americans can. But they don't pay for that because we can all do that. They pay for being able to hit the baseball against the best pitchers in the world. And to play defense well enough when the other best hitters in the world are at the plate.
    Oh, please. It's not about running to first base, it's about the general approach. You don't just turn effort on and off whenever you feel like it, it's something you have to do all the time so that it consumes your entire approach to the sport. Otherwise the next thing you know you'll be finding every plausible reason why this particular situation you're in just happens to be another one of those that doesn't matter. Sport isn't that analytical...even if you know that running to first doesn't matter, you should still run to first.

    ...or at least I guarantee that's what Matt Williams would say. Whether that's right or wrong I don't know, but don't make it out like this is only about running to first with no larger implication.
    Last edited by kpresidente; 04-20-2014 at 11:59 PM.

  17. #42
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Oh, please. It's not about running to first base, it's about the general approach. You don't just turn effort on and off whenever you feel like it, it's something you have to do all the time so that it consumes your entire approach to the sport. Otherwise the next thing you know you'll be finding every plausible reason why this particular situation you're in just happens to be another one of those that doesn't matter. Sport isn't that analytical...even if you know that running to first doesn't matter, you should still run to first.

    ...or at least I guarantee that's what Matt Williams would say. Whether that's right or wrong I don't know, but don't make it out like this is only about running to first with no larger implication.
    Oh, please. Effort isn't going to do anything on a weak chopper to the pitcher.

    If you, Matt Williams or someone else wants to make a big deal out of it, feel free. But it's wasted effort on a weak chopper to the pitcher.

  18. #43
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Douglas! You didn't address the point at all!

  19. #44
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    What was the point? That Matt Williams wants his guys busting their butt down the line no matter what?

  20. #45
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    Re: Who made the BIGGER Mistake? Bryce Harper or Manager Matt Williams?

    Well, do you think Matt Williams believes wins and losses ride on whether guys run out ground balls? I'll give the guy a little more credit than that. He probably thinks he's not seeing enough effort in general so he's going to zero in on it with a microscope until he gets the broader changes he's looking for. That's my speculation, at least.


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