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Thread: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

  1. #16
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Shin Soo Choo has never had an OPS over .900 for a full season. Saying he's Choo is a bit off.

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    joshua (04-26-2014)

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  4. #17
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    I don't understand why his two knee surgeries are his excuse for not being the same player. You would think he tore his ACL from the way he talks about the impact of his surgery. It was a torn meniscus, people get them all the time.

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    Don Votto (04-25-2014), Falcon7 (04-28-2014)

  6. #18
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by bengalsown View Post
    I don't understand why his two knee surgeries are his excuse for not being the same player. You would think he tore his ACL from the way he talks about the impact of his surgery. It was a torn meniscus, people get them all the time.
    Do some research, meniscus usually cannot be repaired. ACL/MCL/PCL/etc can be replaced with other ligaments. Either way, your knee is never the same

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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    Shin Soo Choo has never had an OPS over .900 for a full season. Saying he's Choo is a bit off.
    You are right. The difference between Votto's 2013 OPS and Choo's OPS was because Votto's singles counted toward slugging where as Choo's HBP only counted to his OBP and not his slugging.

    So, I suppose you are right in that regards. Even though Choo had more extra base hits in less games, based on OPS, Votto (with his extra singles) obviously out slugged Choo.

  8. #20
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rando View Post
    Do some research, meniscus usually cannot be repaired. ACL/MCL/PCL/etc can be replaced with other ligaments. Either way, your knee is never the same
    Come on. Do not even compare torn cartridge to an ACL. The ligaments control the torque on that knee. The meniscus protects against the jarring of the knee.

  9. #21
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Votto View Post
    You are right. The difference between Votto's 2013 OPS and Choo's OPS was because Votto's singles counted toward slugging where as Choo's HBP only counted to his OBP and not his slugging.

    So, I suppose you are right in that regards. Even though Choo had more extra base hits in less games, based on OPS, Votto (with his extra singles) obviously out slugged Choo.


    Man you are obviously biased if you really think Choo = Votto. But that is an opinion you are allowed to have.

  10. #22
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    What do the numbers say?

  11. #23
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    That even in Votto's worst season he had a better AVG, OBP, SLG%, OPS than Choo has ever had for a full season.

    Votto last year

    .305/.435/.491/.926

    Choo's best in any full season (not counting 2008 as he only played 94 games)

    .300/.423/.489/.885 (note those won't add up as they are individual numbers from different seasons)

  12. #24
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    That even in Votto's worst season he had a better AVG, OBP, SLG%, OPS than Choo has ever had for a full season.

    Votto last year

    .305/.435/.491/.926

    Choo's best in any full season (not counting 2008 as he only played 94 games)

    .300/.423/.489/.885 (note those won't add up as they are individual numbers from different seasons)
    Since Sept 2012 Votto Choo
    PA 930 934
    AB 734 752
    HITS 224 218
    2B 41 46
    3B 3 3
    HR 28 24
    BB 181 143
    K 175 178
    XBH% 7.7% 7.8%
    HBP 8 31


    Seems Awfully similar to me.

  13. #25
    Member jordan_tm's Avatar
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    Really? Votto would have tied for the team lead in homers for the Cardinals last year, they seemed to have a pretty good offense.
    The Cardinals also hit .330 as a team with RISP and Allen Craig hit .454 with RISP. Votto hit .291 with RISP, and even worse .287 with men on base.

    In 2010, he hit .369 with RISP and .379 with men on base.

    I guess I was too generic in saying that every team needs a middle of the order homerun hitter. When you hit them counts as well. And if you don't hit as many, you should be able to make up for it by driving runs in when men are on base.

  14. #26
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Votto View Post
    Since Sept 2012 Votto Choo
    PA 930 934
    AB 734 752
    HITS 224 218
    2B 41 46
    3B 3 3
    HR 28 24
    BB 181 143
    K 175 178
    XBH% 7.7% 7.8%
    HBP 8 31


    Seems Awfully similar to me.
    And yet Votto at his very worst is still better than Choo at his best. Cool!

  15. #27
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimJim11 View Post
    And yet Votto at his very worst is still better than Choo at his best. Cool!
    I am not sure where you are drawing that conclusion, Slim. because of OPS OBA slash line? That's as far as you can look. OK.

    The point of the initial conversation. Votto said he is not a 35HR 100 RBI hitter anymore, and not to expect that from him now or in the future. So, ladies and gentleman Votto 2.0 = Shin Soo Choo.

    Furthermore--
    Choo has ten more runs scored than Votto did over this time period...but, Votto did hit behind Choo... you would expect Votto to get more RBI's when a man like Choo is on base 40% of the time--but I guess Votto, despite his 175 strikeouts, has been pitched around in every RBI scenario.

    Votto does have 13 more RBI's than Choo SCORE ONE FOR VOTTO
    But then again, Choo had the 8 and 9 hitters setting the table for him....

    Although Votto did manage to hit into 12 more double plays than Choo (assuming because Choo was on so much--where as the 8 and 9 hitters did not set Choo up for too many double plays?)

    Though Votto walked 38 more times than Choo -- Choo was hit by a pitch 23 more times than Votto.

    So--in a nutshell-- The main difference between Choo and Votto since September, 2012... Votto played in 6 more games and walked/hbp 15 more times than Choo, and had six more hits in that time period.

    Again--to me they are the same player... and if this is what Votto has become... than it is what it is. But, as I said before, and I will say it again--I don't think the Reds paid 263 million dollars for a table setter.
    Last edited by Don Votto; 04-25-2014 at 07:26 PM.

  16. #28
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    Re: Votto - "I'm not the same guy I was 5 years ago"

    The elephant in the room is not which is better. Both are plenty good. Choo gets almost the same money, Votto a couple million more per season. But - Votto gets paid til age 39. Choo is off the Texas payroll at age 37 and being a year older that is actually three years before Joey. The only way in a lot of cases, to sign a star hitter, is to lock them up for a lot of years. In a small market there are only so many contracts to offer like that. The Reds chose Joey to be one of them - the big one. I just wonder if it makes sense for a small market to EVER offer a contract like that? Don't get me wrong - I love Votto and think he's worth every dime right now. Those 36-37-38-39 years could be a real albatross, though.
    No - I am not from State Farm!


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