Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 48

Thread: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodder

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodder

    I don't think this would be enough for the Dodgers to trade a 21 year old right handed power hitter who is locked up through 2020?

    But, what would get it done?

    The Dodgers with Cueto, Kershaw (healthy), Greinke, Haren, Ryu WOW

    The Dodgers also have Ethier on the bench who they are signed with 18m through 2018, Kemp through 2019, and Crawford through 2017.

    Career splits for Puig .318/.392/.529/.921

    This allows the Reds to have a glimmer of hope to be able to sign Leake and Latos long term.
    The rotation in 2016 would be something like: Leake, Latos, Cingrani, Bailey, (some fifth starter)

    Line-up through 2016 would be
    Hamilton--CF
    Votto--1B
    Puig--LF
    Bruce--RF
    Frazier--3B
    Mesaraco--C
    Phillips--2B
    Cozart--SS


    Something like:
    Cueto ,( Heisey or Ludwick) and ANY minor league pitcher and ANY minor league position player

    Cueto, Heisey, Ervin, Stephenson for Puig (etc)

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,938

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Pass

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Pass
    Pass from the Dodgers point of view or the Reds point of view?

    Is it because of Puig's immaturity that you would be passing on him?

    I personally think that the reds would not have enough to get Puig-- and/or they would need a bigger draw to sell to their fan base besides Cueto, an extra-outfielder, and prospects for Puig.

    Perhaps Chapman would be enough star power.... but....

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Pass
    I am of the school that you have to give something to get something.... when the Reds acquired Morgan, they did so by trading away a former ROY and a 28-year-old all-star firstbaseman... that in the previous five years averaged 30 HR 90 RBI

    May--28 yo 2x All-Star Previous five years was roughly a .275 30 90 hitter
    Helms -- 30 yo 2x all-star, coming off 2x gold glove winner
    Stewart--Key utility position player

    for

    Morgan--27 yo --2 x all-star who had decent OBP and stolen base numbers
    Armbrister-- AA outfielder
    Geronimo--23--A fourth/fifth outfielder for Houston and a .225 career hitter to that point
    Billinghamm--29 yo 4th/5th starter who was 32-32 in four years service time.
    Menke--30 yo 2x all-star who was coming off a career low season after all-star appearances in 68/69.

    My point being... the Reds gambled BIG time on bringing in a moody player in Morgan by trading away a two time all-star slugger and a gold glove secondbaseman. I can't imagine that the fans were none too pleased in giving up May and Helms for quite frankly Morgan, a fifth starter, an old vet AND two stiffs (that turned out to be good ball players)

    My point being is... to get return, you have to trade something.

  6. #5
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,938

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    No, has nothing to do with his maturity level, I don't really care about that.

    I think Puig is good, but I would rather not trade Cueto and his replacement + one of the better OF prospects in baseball for him. If it was Cueto, Heisey/Ludwick, Ervin and some other prospect I would be OK with it, but Stephenson is the dealbreaker for me.

    I do not believe the Dodgers would do this trade anyways because their fanbase would be really upset.

  7. #6
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Cueto, Heisey, Ervin and Stephenson. No. Heck no.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  8. Likes:

    Larkin Fan (05-04-2014), marcshoe (05-07-2014)

  9. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Again... why? Puig is locked up through 20... and with the stud young outfielders like Winkler, YRod and/or Duran... one of those can replace Bruce.

    And wince I am reading our minorleague reports, it seems like we have a great deal of depth for starting pitching. So, why not take a dynamic player who is signed through the age 27?

  10. #8
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,938

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Ervin is expendable, but Stephenson is not, he has had a slow start but he has a chance to be something very special.

    Also, you are talking about Johnny Cueto, the ace of the team and a top 5 pitcher in the NL right now and is signed through 2015. Puig is also a factor here, he was excellent in his rookie campaign, but we are talking about a guy that only has 550 at bats or so, he could easily burn out. I just don't think its a good deal.

  11. Likes:

    marcshoe (05-07-2014), RedlegJake (05-04-2014), Slyder (05-07-2014)

  12. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    107

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    If you were to compile a list of the 10 players that their current teams are least willing to trade, Puig would probably be on that list. Why do you think the Dodgers would be willing to trade him?

    jvs

  13. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    I completely agree PTjvs. It would make no sense for them to trade Puig, especially if they are only getting Cueto, two minor league prospects and one more serviceable major leaguers. (Especially since he is so cheap for the next 6 years) That's the caveat.

    I was just wondering out loud what it would take to get Puig, and there really is nothing valuable enough in the Reds organization that would make them come off Puig.

    Looking through other trades or rosters, etc... and comparing them to what the Reds have in the organization, there really is no player/players of value that would get the Reds an impactful long-term(six year) major league offensive player [ie age 20-24 and cost prohibitive] that the Reds could get through a trade.

  14. #11
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,938

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Votto View Post

    Looking through other trades or rosters, etc... and comparing them to what the Reds have in the organization, there really is no player/players of value that would get the Reds an impactful long-term(six year) major league offensive player [ie age 20-24 and cost prohibitive] that the Reds could get through a trade.
    I don't exactly know what players you are referring to with impactful long-term major league offensive players that are locked up for 6 years. Trout? Puig? Goldshmidt? Players like that never get traded, so I don't really understand what the point of any of this is.

    I think you are vastly underrating Robert Stephenson. He is not just a "minor league prospect." He is one of the most elite young arms in baseball. Most teams do not have a prospect as good as him.

    And "only getting Cueto?" The guy is dominating the NL right now, he is the best pitcher in the league through the first month of the season.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 05-06-2014 at 01:31 PM.

  15. Likes:

    RedlegJake (05-06-2014)

  16. #12
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    The "only getting Cueto" and "two minor league prospects" like Ervin and Stephenson are worthless (especially given the huge premium being put on prospects today). I said heck no because I believe it's a huge overpay. Puig has some pretty big warts as well as tremendous talent.
    No - I am not from State Farm!

  17. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Sorry, I should have written something like... cost prohibitive studs that are in year one or two of their careers. Cueto and Ervin, Stephenson and some other MLB player) will get the Reds NOTHING of long-term value that is cost-prohibitive.

    Cueto has injury problems and quite frankly, the minor leaguers are low minor leaguers that are trending upwards BUT.. they are minor leaguers. And until they can prove that they are successful major league players, then it is playing the lottery with them (in assuming they will be durable impact players)

    For every stud number 1 pitching prospect that has fulfilled their potential, there are vast multiples that have flamed out when getting to the major leagues.

    Going way back here( and off the top of my head).. but... Kris Benson, Paul Wilson, Isringhausen (yes I know.. arm injuries) Brad Penny AJ Burnett (solid careers, but would you take a stud like Puig, Trout, Goldschmidt or them?), Heck, even Harvey and Strasburg (and I love those pitchers... but... I would rather have a GREAT everyday player than them.

    Bottomline-- can you guarantee me that Stephenson will be more like Jose Fernandez or another Reds phenom in Homer Bailey? And if you take the safe road and say... in roughly 3 to 4 years Stephenson will be somewhere in between Fernandez and Bailey, well then YES.... right now I take a shot at someone with HUGE offensive impact that can be long-term for the next six years minimum.

  18. #14
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,938

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Votto View Post
    Sorry, I should have written something like... cost prohibitive studs that are in year one or two of their careers. Cueto and Ervin, Stephenson and some other MLB player) will get the Reds NOTHING of long-term value that is cost-prohibitive.
    What can any team provide for a "cost prohibitive stud" that is year one or two of their careers? Why would any team trade a player like that? I feel like this is just a thread to troll people about Cueto, Ervin and Stephenson.

  19. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    185

    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    What can any team provide for a "cost prohibitive stud" that is year one or two of their careers? Why would any team trade a player like that? I feel like this is just a thread to troll people about Cueto, Ervin and Stephenson.
    Not sure how you define troll. I was stating an opinion. Lighten up.

    Well, the Reds had a cost-prohibitive 26-year-old stud in 2007 that...wait for it... had the magical .900 OPS season.

    And they traded him for.... a 23 year old right hander who was in the top 60 prospects in the major leagues for two straight years--as well as short crafty left hander.

    Granted--Volquez had a fantastic 2008, but what happened to him... ZAP injury bug.

    Now, granted that was an extreme case in some scenarios...
    but the Reds would have controlled him for five years (and paid a hefty arbitration number)
    But, let's see.... Hamilton hit with Texas .305/.363/.549 .912OPS... won an MVP in 2010 (that would have been nice to have that player when the Reds played the Phillies) and he made FIVE All-Star teams.

    But, we did get Volquez, who turned into Latos (unfortunately, we also had to give away a Grandal and Alonso.

    My point being... teams do make moves....

    I like Cueto. He is a fine pitcher. I think Dusty errrr... Price is riding him a bit hard with 55 innings through 7 starts--he is on pace for a 264 inning season, but, he is a top notch pitcher.

    Heisey or Ludwick... ehh whatever... they are average players...

    Ervin or Winkler or whoever you want to throw in there... yeah, they may turn out great,or they may be Brad Komminsk or Clint Hurdle.

    Stephenson or Lively--they may become Roger Clemens, They may become Homer Bailey, They may become Edinson Volquez, or they may become a Todd Van Poppel...my point being who in the hell knows... but a proven, young major league player I will take that ANYTIME.

    Don't get me wrong... I would never trade a top prospect for a middle reliever or a 34 year old free-agent to be stud... BUT... I would pull the trigger, and perhaps pay a kings ransom, to get a player LIKE Puig... and if it is the loss of an ace for a team that will probably go NO WHERE this season, and two prospects, then so be it.

    Minor league prospects are baseball fans lottery picks. We all think we have the winning ticket, the jackpot, the Megamillions, but more often than not we have something to add to the fire.
    Last edited by Don Votto; 05-07-2014 at 02:06 AM.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25