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Thread: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodder

  1. #31
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Honestly, I would not trade Cueto for Puig straight up, most less add other parts.
    The time to win is now and next year.
    Without Cueto, honestly, this team is not a contender at all, no matter how the offense is beefed up.

    Let's be honest, Homer is not an ace yet. Cingrani has lingering injury problems and it looks like this year, Price is forcing him to use more than the FB, which is going to hurt his numbers (short term)
    Latos is questionable too. I know he's progressing well in his rehab, but what happens if he's just average this year?

    Cueto is the main support pole that holds up the entire pitching staff, IMO. Especially this year. The other guys are good, but Cueto is irreplaceable.
    If this team is realistically out of it come late July, I would listen to offers for Cueto...if Walt believes he can't be re-signed.

    Considering he's still under his current deal until after next season, his value would be sky high.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    A few observations/questions.

    1.) What will it take to resign Cueto after 2015? He has a $10mm option that will be picked up for the 2015 season.

    2.) If the # it takes to resign Cueto is not possible due to payroll restrictions from the Reds, then you can discuss the possibility of trading him. You don't let Cueto go for a 1st round comp pick after 2015.

    3.) RA Dickey was traded to the Blue Jays in 2012. The Mets got Travis díArnaud, C John Buck, RHP Noah Syndergaard and OF Wuilmer Becerra in the deal. Syndergaard is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. A- grade according to Sickels/Borderline A. (his words not mine) D'Arnaud is a B+ prospect, borderline A-. Buck was a throw in-- and Becerra was a 17 year old Venezuelan prospect who was another throw in.

    Remember-- this deal was for Dickey---Basically 2 "A-" prospects for a 37 year old pitcher!! (Who was 38 on opening day for the Jays the following year)

    Pitching is Gold. You can never have enough of it and you don't trade it away if possible. Cueto, if I dare say, is way more valuable than Dickey. He's a better pitcher-- and is a decade younger.


    Contract Comps.

    Kershaw signed for ~31 million a year. Greinke signed a deal for $24.5mm a year for 6 years at the end of 2012. Cueto if he continues to pitch this well, should earn somewhere b/w GReinke and Kershaw-- so $25-$30mm a year.

    Tanaka's deal has an option for him to opt out after 4 years. $20mm fee to his Japanese club, $22mm a year for 4 years = $88m +$20m So 108mm over 4 years. So $27mm per year.


    So, guesses on the amount it will take to resign Cueto? btw--- if the Reds can't afford him-- they are getting 2 stud prospects in return @ a minimum and at least another B rated prospect as well.

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    Old school 1983 (05-23-2014)

  5. #33
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    The Reds need a RH elite level power bat in LF in order for this offense to reach its full potential. Missed out on Cespedes and Puig. Our hopes are pinned on Ervin and Yorman. Reds desperately need a Encarnacion, Puig type bat. Other than that, we need power arms in the pen, SS depth, etc. Don't trade pitching. Hoard it, but if you can acquire 2 elite prospects for Cueto or Bailey, pull the trigger.

    Hamilton
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    Last edited by JMO; 05-23-2014 at 02:06 AM.

  6. #34
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladeda View Post
    A few observations/questions.

    1.) What will it take to resign Cueto after 2015? He has a $10mm option that will be picked up for the 2015 season.

    2.) If the # it takes to resign Cueto is not possible due to payroll restrictions from the Reds, then you can discuss the possibility of trading him. You don't let Cueto go for a 1st round comp pick after 2015.

    3.) RA Dickey was traded to the Blue Jays in 2012. The Mets got Travis d’Arnaud, C John Buck, RHP Noah Syndergaard and OF Wuilmer Becerra in the deal. Syndergaard is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. A- grade according to Sickels/Borderline A. (his words not mine) D'Arnaud is a B+ prospect, borderline A-. Buck was a throw in-- and Becerra was a 17 year old Venezuelan prospect who was another throw in.

    Remember-- this deal was for Dickey---Basically 2 "A-" prospects for a 37 year old pitcher!! (Who was 38 on opening day for the Jays the following year)

    Pitching is Gold. You can never have enough of it and you don't trade it away if possible. Cueto, if I dare say, is way more valuable than Dickey. He's a better pitcher-- and is a decade younger.


    Contract Comps.

    Kershaw signed for ~31 million a year. Greinke signed a deal for $24.5mm a year for 6 years at the end of 2012. Cueto if he continues to pitch this well, should earn somewhere b/w GReinke and Kershaw-- so $25-$30mm a year.

    Tanaka's deal has an option for him to opt out after 4 years. $20mm fee to his Japanese club, $22mm a year for 4 years = $88m +$20m So 108mm over 4 years. So $27mm per year.


    So, guesses on the amount it will take to resign Cueto? btw--- if the Reds can't afford him-- they are getting 2 stud prospects in return @ a minimum and at least another B rated prospect as well.
    I think Dickey was a special case. He had just won the Cy Young and was/is really good for PR. I also think this trade is a cautionary tale for many teams. I know it was just a short while ago and you can usually find a team desperate for pitching, but I don't think many teams would go for this trade right now. The Blue Jays really blew it on that one.

  7. #35
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by JMO View Post
    The Reds need a RH elite level power bat in LF in order for this offense to reach its full potential. Missed out on Cespedes and Puig. Our hopes are pinned on Ervin and Yorman. Reds desperately need a Encarnacion, Puig type bat. Other than that, we need power arms in the pen, SS depth, etc. Don't trade pitching. Hoard it, but if you can acquire 2 elite prospects for Cueto or Bailey, pull the trigger.

    Hamilton
    Phillips
    Votto
    RH LF
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Mesoraco
    Cozart
    Every team needs an elite RH power bat.

    Also - Cespedes really isn't that good.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 05-23-2014 at 11:03 AM.

  8. #36
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Votto View Post
    Again... why? Puig is locked up through 20... and with the stud young outfielders like Winkler, YRod and/or Duran...
    The name is Winker. Jesse Winker.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #37
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Dodgers would laugh at this...

  10. #38
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    It's true - Fodde has a heck of an arm

  11. #39
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Dickey was a special case. He had just won the Cy Young and was/is really good for PR. I also think this trade is a cautionary tale for many teams. I know it was just a short while ago and you can usually find a team desperate for pitching, but I don't think many teams would go for this trade right now. The Blue Jays really blew it on that one.
    Look @ all the trades involving pitchers the past few years. The team trading the pitcher gets a good haul.

    . Greinke to LAA--- The Brewers got Jean Segura and 2 B pitching prospects for half a season of Greinke
    Garza to the Rangers--- The Cubs got 4 prospects. A couple of B+ prospects a C+ Arm and a Player to Be Named later. All of this for half a season of Garza)
    Shields to KC. (Full season)--- Tampa got an A prospect in Myers a b+ guy in Odorizzi and 2 C+ guys.


    I should note that when Dickey was traded-- Syndergaard was just a B+ prospect @ the time, not an A-. I can't scroll up and see if I wrote that.

    Look @ the huge hauls teams give up for pitching-- because pitching is hard to come by. Heck, the Reds gave up 3 really good prospects (thankfully they haven't done much) and a starter for Latos. Alonso was an A- guy and Grandal a B+ guy. The Dickey trade isn't a special case--- pitching is really expensive to trade for!


    Lets see what the Rays get for D Price-- who is similar to Cueto. UFA after 2015-- (although his salary next year will be substantially more than Cueto's) The Rays will get a pretty good haul for him. Or lets see what the Cubs get for Samarzdja (spelling) I bet both of those clubs get a nice return for their pitchers.

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    Old school 1983 (05-23-2014)

  13. #40
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Why aren't we? I know even in Baseball it is a fast food type instant gratification world, but we do know this, we will not be able to afford Cueto after 2015, why not shop him now, he is blazing hot and could give us a huge return!! This team NEEDS AN OFFENSIVE BOOST and long term. Why cant we put him out there on the trading block and let teams bid for him and take the highest bid?

    I just dont get it guys, how far does this team have to drop before we start taking things seriously? Why in Cincinnati is the norm mediocre?
    Bowled 9 300 games, semi-retired!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game

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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohioballplayer View Post
    but we do know this, we will not be able to afford Cueto after 2015
    Source?

  15. #42
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Source?
    Do you live in Cincinnati? Castilini (spell check, dont want to look it up) himself? Signing Homer, how many sources do you need?

    Take a poll if it is not obvious, oh wait the 1000lb gorilla in the room Joey Votto's contract...
    Bowled 9 300 games, semi-retired!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game

  16. #43
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohioballplayer View Post
    Do you live in Cincinnati? Castilini (spell check, dont want to look it up) himself? Signing Homer, how many sources do you need?

    Take a poll if it is not obvious, oh wait the 1000lb gorilla in the room Joey Votto's contract...
    It has never been reported that the Reds cannot afford Johnny Cueto. I was referring to a linked source where it is stated the Reds cannot afford Johnny Cueto.

    The reds also could not afford the following players:

    Joey Votto
    Brandon Phillips
    Homer Bailey
    Aroldis Chapman

  17. #44
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    you are just making my head hurt...
    Bowled 9 300 games, semi-retired!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game

  18. #45
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    Re: Cueto, [Heisey and/or Ludwick] and two or three minor leaguers for Puig and fodde

    Why? Sorry to question your "we all know the reds cannot afford Cueto" statement.

    The fact of the matter is we do not know the Reds cannot afford Cueto.


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