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View Poll Results: Who will be the most successful pitcher in the major leagues?

Voters
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  • Ben Lively

    13 20.31%
  • Michael Lorenzen

    31 48.44%
  • Nick Travieso

    18 28.13%
  • Other (please list below)

    2 3.13%
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Thread: After Stephenson...

  1. #16
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    I voted Travieso. If he were doing this, in college right now, he would be near the very top of all the mock drafts.
    That's an interesting take. What are Doug's or any of the other experts thoughts on this?

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  3. #17
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    How fast is Lorenzen's gas?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #18
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    He has touched triple digits but his fb sits more at 94-95. He can dial that up a bit to 97-98 without a lot of effort. I haven't seen enough game action with him on the mound to verify this first hand but I have heard that his fb sorta flattens out when he pushes it, though, so he may be guy that gets more life and action when he keeps it dialed back just a bit. A pitch f/x report I saw, said he was still raw with the change, mainly not getting enough diff in the spin rate to make it drop enough and that his slider was on-off. The curveball wrinkle is new and exciting - this guy learns easily and the milb action I have seen shows how effortlessly he pitches. He isn't a "grunter" when he reaches back for extra - it comes smooth. I picked Lorenzen for all these reasons - his upside is just startling. Yes, he is unpolished and learning but by leaps and bounds. His arm is very much like Stephenson's in that the upside is off the charts.

    When you combine these two with Travieso's progress this year and the upside in his arm, and Lively's polished pitchability....man I love what's ahead. Not even talking the possibilities in Guillon, Garrett, Kivel and Contreras.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 05-21-2014 at 11:54 AM.
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  6. #19
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    I think the only reason Travieso isn't winning the poll is because everyone quickly piled on the belief that he was a bust last year. *hides*
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  7. #20
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    I was one of the ones that quickly said he was a bust last year. I admit I was wrong (so far). I picked Lorenzen because he has a bigger arm, that's it. I rank Travieso ahead of Lively.

  8. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    How fast is Lorenzen's gas?
    FAST. He isn't quite there with Stephenson, but he is ahead of the rest of the starters for where he sits (though Contreras is right there with him).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    That's an interesting take. What are Doug's or any of the other experts thoughts on this?
    My take is that he wouldn't be eligible for the draft this year. But yeah, I think people are still sleeping on him.

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  10. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    Lively. Keep in mind he's doing what he's doing in a "hitter's league." The guy's numbers are off-the-charts good.

    I like the other two choices as well. It's certainly nice to have a lot of quality pitching prospects coming up in the system.
    And yet scout after scout seems to wonder how he is going to pitch as he moves up because of the stuff.

    will be interesting to see if he can sustain his success when he inevitably gets called up to Double-A
    I am a Lively fan. He's a top 10 Reds guy. Right now, he is one of their five best pitching prospects. But there is a pecking order. Stephenson - Travieso/Lorenzen - Lively/Moscot/Contreras - A group of good arms with a lot to prove still.

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    redsmetz (05-22-2014)

  12. #23
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    I think the only reason Travieso isn't winning the poll is because everyone quickly piled on the belief that he was a bust last year.
    Don't think so. Lorenzen is winning on his own merits, I would say.

    I don't think it was necessarily a "Travieso is a bust" chorus. It was, "he's not pitching at all like a first rounder -- concern warranted." Bust suggests the guy is toast, and not many, if any, were saying that.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #24
    Member Chuckie's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Re: Lively.

    I remember hearing the same nonsense about Cingrani. "Oh, he won't be able to keep this up when he moves up a level or two."

    We shall find out soon enough.
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  14. #25
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Cingrani also throws 95

    No one is saying Lively doesn't have potential. People are saying Lorenzen and Travieso have better arms and a higher ceiling. They probably have higher ceilings than Cingrani as well.

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    Old school 1983 (05-21-2014)

  16. #26
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Cingrani also throws 95

    No one is saying Lively doesn't have potential. People are saying Lorenzen and Travieso have better arms and a higher ceiling. They probably have higher ceilings than Cingrani as well.
    Exactly. The concern with Cingrani was the lack of secondary pitches, not the quality of his FB.

    You've got to give the Reds a ton of credit, they've done a great job drafting and developing pitchers under the current regime. Of the group listed I give a slight edge to Lorenzen but it's a darn good group.

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    RedTeamGo! (05-21-2014)

  18. #27
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    Re: Lively.

    I remember hearing the same nonsense about Cingrani. "Oh, he won't be able to keep this up when he moves up a level or two."

    We shall find out soon enough.
    RedTeamGo! touched on part of that already though. Cingrani is a lefty who has topped out at 97.5 MPH. Lively tops out around 94. As a righty.

    Second note: Just because Tony Cingrani did something you heard he couldn't doesn't mean that we should just assume others will too. That's really bad logic. Elizardo Ramirez was that guy, until he wasn't. David Holmberg was that guy, until he wasn't. Chris Manno was that guy, until he wasn't. And those are just the Reds guys off of the top of my head who put up some silly numbers once upon a time with ok enough stuff, but nothing special. Maybe Lively bucks the trend to, but simply because Tony Cingrani had similar questions about him doesn't mean that we should be using that as the reason Lively will also do it.

  19. #28
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Course, we could also use Cingrani as a cautionary tale that, yes, sometimes guys do explode expectations.

  20. #29
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    RedTeamGo! touched on part of that already though.

    Elizardo Ramirez was that guy, until he wasn't.
    I am still holding out hope for The Lizard.

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  22. #30
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    Re: After Stephenson...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    RedTeamGo! touched on part of that already though. Cingrani is a lefty who has topped out at 97.5 MPH. Lively tops out around 94. As a righty.

    Second note: Just because Tony Cingrani did something you heard he couldn't doesn't mean that we should just assume others will too. That's really bad logic. Elizardo Ramirez was that guy, until he wasn't. David Holmberg was that guy, until he wasn't. Chris Manno was that guy, until he wasn't. And those are just the Reds guys off of the top of my head who put up some silly numbers once upon a time with ok enough stuff, but nothing special. Maybe Lively bucks the trend to, but simply because Tony Cingrani had similar questions about him doesn't mean that we should be using that as the reason Lively will also do it.
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