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Thread: It's time to "Blow it up".

  1. #1
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    It's time to "Blow it up".

    With all the talent and the money invested in this team they should be running away with the division. Instead they can't even make it to .500 and it's the end of May. There is no leadership on the team what so ever and they have no fire. Walt needs to be the 1st to go because he has handcuffed this team with all the contracts he has signed. I know its nice to lock players up but how can you sign Votto to a 10 year deal when he has only had 2 maybe 3 good years when he signed and don't even get me started on Bailey. There's a reason the Cards dumped him and he's doing the same thing here. When the Reds where going through WK and O'Brian they focused on the young players and Walt has rode those coat-tails to a great core of players. You would think the club would've learned from there past and not sign big long contracts for players (Dunn, KGJ, Larkin,....). He failed 2 years in a row to get better and for that he gets the ax. Now when you look at the team they do have a ton of pitching and you can get the world for pitching and rebuild a team real fast by dealing it. Cueto, Bailey and Leake would all be available and if the right deal comes along Latos. Lets say you deal 3 of those guys, you would get a ton of talent in return and land at least 4 stud prospects and 6-8 more prospect with it. Then if they could dump Votto, BP, Bruce and Ludwick they could land a lot more guys and would have a good core of players still left on the team. I know people will disagree but if this team did this now they could reload with talent real quick and have money to strengthen weaknesses.

    why is BP batting 4th

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    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    I read the first sentence and wanted to answer with: "the problem is that other teams in the division spent money aswell and have perhaps (cardinals ) even more talent"

    than I read the next sentence and thought: "oh my...."

    after the rest...



    Why did we need another one of those threads?! We have already a

    - Votto contract thread
    - fire Walt thread
    - Bailey thread
    and multiple other thread we discuss the team needs, who could be dealt at the deadline, who is underperforming etc....
    Last edited by tomnuetten; 05-28-2014 at 08:55 PM.
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  5. #3
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Maybe it's time, maybe not. But I certainly don't want the Jocketty front office doing it. It's not the right time and he's not the right guy for a total overhaul.

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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Wondered how long it would take for these to start popping up...

  8. #5
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Sure, let's blow up a nucleus that has gotten to the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years and has several younger players in the middle of, or at the brink of, their prime under contract for several more seasons all because one injury-riddled season has them playing poorly one third of a way through one season.

    Sounds reasonable.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  10. #6
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Sure, let's blow up a nucleus that has gotten to the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years and has several younger players in the middle of, or at the brink of, their prime under contract for several more seasons all because one injury-riddled season has them playing poorly one third of a way through one season.

    Sounds reasonable.
    The nucleus is fine. It's the supporting cast that needs help. They can retool instead of rebuild.

    I would think about trading Cueto if they aren't going to sign him after next season. His value will never be higher. (Or Latos if he proves to be healthy enough to rebuild his value by the deadline, I'd try to sign who you don't trade)
    numbersinthereds.blogspot.com I actually made a post on 10/17/14. I promise.

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    We don't need to blow anything up. We DO need to tinker and make some refinements, but it's hardly the end of the world. Nobody makes the postseason every year anymore. Not Boston, not New York, not Tampa. Ok, well the Cardinals seem to, but that's about it lol.

  13. #8
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  14. #9
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Here's my take. There is one huge question right now. Should the Reds trade Johnny Cueto at the deadline for a boatload of talent. Maybe add Broxton if he's still doing so well. Maybe add another player, someone non-core.

    No blow up is happening here. The Reds have three large contracts worth near $400 million which won't be seen as attractive by clubs. Reds ain't trading inexpensive kids and controllable assets. They aren't ripping the team apart, nor should they.

    Latos unfortunately has lost value due to injury. Leake has value, sure, but probably fits the Reds' payroll going forward.

    Cueto is the big chip. He brings a big return. it would be very, very tough to take for Reds fans. But there's a compelling case to be made that a trade of Cueto plus some other goodies at the deadline gets this team the youth it needs to reload with controllable, inexpensive talent. And saves the Reds another huge contract that Johnny would soon require.

    I'm sure this won't go over well, but it's one poster's view of reality.

    Another possibility is Chapman but he's now cemented as a reliever and won't bring as much, and he's in the Reds' control longer. No, the key question is whether to re-stock with a big Cueto trade. And that's the kind of trade you make at the deadline, when teams are desperate to make the playoffs or go far this year.

    That's the big decision and the Reds have to consider it and maybe test the waters.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-28-2014 at 09:46 PM.

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  16. #10
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Here's my take. There is one huge question right now. Should the Reds trade Johnny Cueto at the deadline for a boatload of talent. Maybe add Broxton if he's still doing so well. Maybe add another non-core player.

    No blow up is happening here. The Reds have three large contracts worth near $400 million which won't be seen as attractive by clubs. They ain't trading kids and controllable assets. They aren't ripping the team apart, nor should they.

    Latos unfortunately has lost value due to injury. Leake has value, sure, but probably fits the Reds' payroll going forward.

    Cueto is the big chip. He brings a big return. it would be very, very tough to take. But there's a compelling case to be made that a trade of Cueto plus some other goodies at the deadline gets this team the youth it needs to reload with controllable, inexpensive talent.

    I'm sure this won't go over well, but it's one poster's view of reality.

    Another possibility is Chapman but he's now cemented as a reliever and won't bring as much, and he's in the Reds' control longer. No, the key question is whether to re-stock with a big Cueto trade. And that's the kind of trade you make at the deadline, when teams are desperate to make the playoffs or go far this year.

    That's the big decision.
    Absolutely 100 percent a legitimate question.

    Cueto.
    Latos.
    Leake.

    Trade? Let walk after next year? Give a LTC?

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  18. #11
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Here's my take. There is one huge question right now. Should the Reds trade Johnny Cueto at the deadline for a boatload of talent. Maybe add Broxton if he's still doing so well. Maybe add another player, someone non-core.

    No blow up is happening here. The Reds have three large contracts worth near $400 million which won't be seen as attractive by clubs. Reds ain't trading inexpensive kids and controllable assets. They aren't ripping the team apart, nor should they.

    Latos unfortunately has lost value due to injury. Leake has value, sure, but probably fits the Reds' payroll going forward.

    Cueto is the big chip. He brings a big return. it would be very, very tough to take for Reds fans. But there's a compelling case to be made that a trade of Cueto plus some other goodies at the deadline gets this team the youth it needs to reload with controllable, inexpensive talent. And saves the Reds another huge contract that Johnny would soon require.

    I'm sure this won't go over well, but it's one poster's view of reality.

    Another possibility is Chapman but he's now cemented as a reliever and won't bring as much, and he's in the Reds' control longer. No, the key question is whether to re-stock with a big Cueto trade. And that's the kind of trade you make at the deadline, when teams are desperate to make the playoffs or go far this year.

    That's the big decision and the Reds have to consider it and maybe test the waters.
    I don't want to do it, like at all, but hypothetically a trade of Cueto makes a lot more sense if you move Chapman into the rotation to potentially take his place. Otherwise, no thanks at all really.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  19. #12
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Absolutely 100 percent a legitimate question.

    Cueto.
    Latos.
    Leake.

    Trade? Let walk after next year? Give a LTC?
    And here, the Reds' recent management style of extreme patience is a complete, utter disaster IMO. They cannot let these pitchers go for draft choices. They cannot sit back and allow these guys just to leave. They have to begin to test the waters at the upcoming July deadline.

    Cueto is a huge trade chip. Leake is a solid trade chip. Latos, if healthy, is a very big chip although he needs to restore his health to get there.

    The team needs young, cheap, very good players. The farm is weak on offense. They seem out of payroll room. It's time to get some good cheaper talent to work with the big contracts.

    Sitting back and letting any of these three walk with no return IMO is an unacceptable outcome.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-28-2014 at 09:53 PM.

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  21. #13
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    And here, the Reds' recent management style of patience and inaction is a complete, utter disaster. They cannot let these pitchers go for draft choices. They cannot sit back and allow these guys just to leave.

    Cueto is a huge trade chip. Leake is a solid trade chip. Latos, if healthy, is a very big chip although he needs to restore his health to get there.

    The team needs young, very good players. The farm is weak on offense. They have something to give, and something to get.

    Sitting back and letting any of these three walk with no return IMO is an unacceptable outcome.
    It will be tough to stomach if that's what they do. And at this point, I'm worried that's what they will do.

  22. #14
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    I'm not sure how I feel about a trade of Cueto. Of course the return would be critical to the judgment. But I think KC has absolutely isolated the right question. The counter argument would start with a 2015 rotation of Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani. With a change in LF, and more ordinary injury luck, a team with that rotation would be something to contend with in 2015.

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  24. #15
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about a trade of Cueto. Of course the return would be critical to the judgment. But I think KC has absolutely isolated the right question. The counter argument would start with a 2015 rotation of Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani. With a change in LF, and more ordinary injury luck, a team with that rotation would be something to contend with in 2015.
    Trade Leake for a LF then and bring up Stephenson to develop and take his place.

    You're not going to get a plus bat SS without developing one yourself and trading anything more than Leake for a LF is overpaying. Seems like the move to me.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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