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Thread: It's time to "Blow it up".

  1. #16
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    It will be tough to stomach if that's what they do. And at this point, I'm worried that's what they will do.
    Don't think so Norm. Castellini is a smart man with money on the line. Even if he agrees with the front office's style, he has to see the handwriting on the wall financially.

    Unlike this past year with Bailey and Choo, right now -- today -- Bob knows that he can't keep all of the three pitchers. He has to be thinking about the correct timing to cash in at least one for younger, cheaper players.

    Bob may not get an A in baseball, but he surely gets an A in economics. I think he will demand that they cash in assets they can't afford to keep.

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  3. #17
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    It will be tough to stomach if that's what they do. And at this point, I'm worried that's what they will do.
    and what leads you to the conclusion? is it the way they handled votto? or bailey?
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

  4. #18
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Here's my take. There is one huge question right now. Should the Reds trade Johnny Cueto at the deadline for a boatload of talent. Maybe add Broxton if he's still doing so well. Maybe add another player, someone non-core.

    No blow up is happening here. The Reds have three large contracts worth near $400 million which won't be seen as attractive by clubs. Reds ain't trading inexpensive kids and controllable assets. They aren't ripping the team apart, nor should they.

    Latos unfortunately has lost value due to injury. Leake has value, sure, but probably fits the Reds' payroll going forward.

    Cueto is the big chip. He brings a big return. it would be very, very tough to take for Reds fans. But there's a compelling case to be made that a trade of Cueto plus some other goodies at the deadline gets this team the youth it needs to reload with controllable, inexpensive talent. And saves the Reds another huge contract that Johnny would soon require.

    I'm sure this won't go over well, but it's one poster's view of reality.

    Another possibility is Chapman but he's now cemented as a reliever and won't bring as much, and he's in the Reds' control longer. No, the key question is whether to re-stock with a big Cueto trade. And that's the kind of trade you make at the deadline, when teams are desperate to make the playoffs or go far this year.

    That's the big decision and the Reds have to consider it and maybe test the waters.

    I see what you're saying, and it is certainly something I think the Reds will have to look at as July comes.

    If the team remains out of it, and want to look for a way to add talent,with as few of moves as possible, then I think one of Cueto/Latos/Leake would be on the block.

    I also see them likely shaking out the same way you do right now. However, I would not be surprised if that was a move made over next winter.

    The Reds need to try to extend one of those pitchers, trade one, and hold on to the other into next season, to see how it plays out.

    Leake is likely to be the most cost efficient one for the Reds to extend. While Latos and Cueto are the most likely to secure a major return. Cueto if done during this season, Latos if he demonstrates health and performance down the stretch.

  5. #19
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Trade Leake for a LF then and bring up Stephenson to develop and take his place.

    You're not going to get a plus bat SS without developing one yourself and trading anything more than Leake for a LF is overpaying. Seems like the move to me.
    Ok Wonderful, but, to play devil's advocate, what if the Reds can sign Leake for $75 million and Cueto demands $150 million? Reds have to consider who they reasonably can sign going forward.

    Leake has not been injured, he doesn't overthrow, he could be a healthy pitcher for some time; he's probably cheaper to keep; and Cueto brings more of a return.

    I agree, we'll have to see how it plays out, everything is on the table. But this is the next set of choices facing the front office and ownership.

  6. #20
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I don't want to do it, like at all, but hypothetically a trade of Cueto makes a lot more sense if you move Chapman into the rotation to potentially take his place. Otherwise, no thanks at all really.
    I think the chapman to the rotation ship has sailed (and Im not that as sad about it as most redszone user)...
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

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  8. #21
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Sure, let's blow up a nucleus that has gotten to the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years and has several younger players in the middle of, or at the brink of, their prime under contract for several more seasons all because one injury-riddled season has them playing poorly one third of a way through one season.

    Sounds reasonable.
    How did making the playoffs 3 outa 4 years work out for Dusty Baker? I'm not for blowing the team up either, just thought it was ironic that argument was used!

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  10. #22
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    I see what you're saying, and it is certainly something I think the Reds will have to look at as July comes.

    If the team remains out of it, and want to look for a way to add talent,with as few of moves as possible, then I think one of Cueto/Latos/Leake would be on the block.

    I also see them likely shaking out the same way you do right now. However, I would not be surprised if that was a move made over next winter.

    The Reds need to try to extend one of those pitchers, trade one, and hold on to the other into next season, to see how it plays out.

    Leake is likely to be the most cost efficient one for the Reds to extend. While Latos and Cueto are the most likely to secure a major return. Cueto if done during this season, Latos if he demonstrates health and performance down the stretch.
    Fair response. Could be though that somebody in the playoff hunt really wants a pitcher at the deadline and offers a great deal. Sometimes the deadline puts more pressure on teams to give up the farm, as they say.

    Off season, sometimes there's less pressure.

    Again, if the Reds aren't competitive at the deadline, I think it could be the beginning of a serious trade watch. Something to keep us interested, eh?

  11. #23
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    As of now there is not one move that must be made, because there are so many moving parts here. But everything needs to be considered.

  12. #24
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    If by "Its time to blow it up" you're referring to THIS THREAD....then I agree. I'd suggest we lock this badboy up and throw away the key. Good grief.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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  14. #25
    There's no Walt only Zuul villain612's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by joe51391 View Post
    I know its nice to lock players up but how can you sign Votto to a 10 year deal when he has only had 2 maybe 3 good years when he signed and don't even get me started on Bailey.
    Aww...and our Votto contract thread just got shut down...
    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

  15. #26
    There's no Walt only Zuul villain612's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Here's my take. There is one huge question right now. Should the Reds trade Johnny Cueto at the deadline for a boatload of talent. Maybe add Broxton if he's still doing so well. Maybe add another player, someone non-core.

    No blow up is happening here. The Reds have three large contracts worth near $400 million which won't be seen as attractive by clubs. Reds ain't trading inexpensive kids and controllable assets. They aren't ripping the team apart, nor should they.

    Latos unfortunately has lost value due to injury. Leake has value, sure, but probably fits the Reds' payroll going forward.

    Cueto is the big chip. He brings a big return. it would be very, very tough to take for Reds fans. But there's a compelling case to be made that a trade of Cueto plus some other goodies at the deadline gets this team the youth it needs to reload with controllable, inexpensive talent. And saves the Reds another huge contract that Johnny would soon require.

    I'm sure this won't go over well, but it's one poster's view of reality.

    Another possibility is Chapman but he's now cemented as a reliever and won't bring as much, and he's in the Reds' control longer. No, the key question is whether to re-stock with a big Cueto trade. And that's the kind of trade you make at the deadline, when teams are desperate to make the playoffs or go far this year.

    That's the big decision and the Reds have to consider it and maybe test the waters.
    I think you hit the nail on the head.

    It'll be a tough call either way and will obviously depend on where the Reds sit in mid-July.

    I think Latos' performance might influence it as well.

    It'd be a tough pill to swallow but I would support a Cueto trade for the right return. Primarily some help in LF.

    Reds are offense starved and they aren't picking up Ludwick's option next year (or then I might actually support firing Walt).
    Last edited by villain612; 05-28-2014 at 10:08 PM.
    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."

  16. #27
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    I'm not sure why this discussion needs to be stifled. So far everything is pretty legitimate and fair. "Blow it up" may have been sensationalistic, but to want to stop this discussion...c'mon.

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  18. #28
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    If by "Its time to blow it up" you're referring to THIS THREAD....then I agree. I'd suggest we lock this badboy up and throw away the key. Good grief.
    Blowing it up is kind of an inflammatory phrase and I don't think a fire sale is going to happen. But I do think it's ok to talk about how to retool this club to make it better. They are 7.5 games out with one of the worst records in the league. It's a fair discussion.

    Should they turn this season around, we'll all be delighted. But looking into the club's future is a pretty good topic, I think, when things are going badly. Because they do have trade assets and some good minor leaguers and they do have the possibility of being stronger in the future with the right moves.

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  20. #29
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    No way I'm trading Leake, his value and results are worth more than the value of what he would bring.

    The FO has to think big for an upgrade in LF, and that will take a #1 or #2

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  22. #30
    There's no Walt only Zuul villain612's Avatar
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    Re: It's time to "Blow it up".

    Quote Originally Posted by '69 & Vine View Post
    No way I'm trading Leake, his value and results are worth more than the value of what he would bring.

    The FO has to think big for an upgrade in LF, and that will take a #1 or #2
    Agreed.

    Anyone, what are some teams/LFer's who might fit the bill for a trade for Cueto?
    "The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers."


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