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Thread: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Just to put it in perspective, re: Yorman Rodriguez, Jason Parks ranked him as a better prospect than Jesse Winker coming into the 2014 season. And some people were arguing that Winker should have been a Top 100 prospect coming into the season, and Parks thought Yorman was a better prospect than he was. A few Baseball America writers also had Yorman at the tail end of their Top 100 lists. And no, just in case someone doesn't understand what I'm trying to say here, I don't think Yorman Rodriguez is a better prospect than Winker is, I'm just making the point that in the scouting community, he gets a whole lot more respect than he seems to be getting around here.

    Yes, he's been around instructors quite a bit more than most guys have been. But still, 21 is 21. You can keep saying "after all these years", if you put him in Dayton right now you would be seeing a really good season from him and people would be stoked if they had a guy with his tools in Dayton and putting up good numbers at his age. But because he's been in the US since he was 16 and pushed aggressively when maybe he shouldn't have been at times, people haven't seen him have big sustained success and think he's not much of a player.

    Going back to June 1st of last year, and excluding May of this year because it was very clear he was injured still and not right, he's hit .283/.341/.428 in 602 plate appearances, mostly at the Double-A level. He's walking more and striking out less than he has in the past this season (sans May). His home ballpark isn't suited for how he hits at all (opposite field approach for a right hander in a park where there were all of NINE home runs hit to right field in 2013 by both teams in 70 games).

    Maybe I'm just completely nuts, but I think far too many people are sleeping on this kid because it feels like he is far older than he actually is.

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  4. #17
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And no, just in case someone doesn't understand what I'm trying to say here, I don't think Yorman Rodriguez is a better prospect than Winker is, I'm just making the point that in the scouting community, he gets a whole lot more respect than he seems to be getting around here.
    Ahhhh gotta love the scouting community.



    But seriously, I'm at the point where Yorman needs to show me something. He has tools and he will likely reach the big leagues at some point, but if he were not on a current Reds Top 10 prospect list (including 2014 guys), I would not object. C'mon Yorman, impress me on the field.

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Ahhhh gotta love the scouting community.



    But seriously, I'm at the point where Yorman needs to show me something. He has tools and he will likely reach the big leagues at some point, but if he were not on a current Reds Top 10 prospect list (including 2014 guys), I would not object. C'mon Yorman, impress me on the field.
    What would be something you want to see, in numbers from him? And remember, he plays in a ballpark that just crushes power to right field, where he hits the ball far more often than he pulls it.

  7. #19
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What would be something you want to see, in numbers from him? And remember, he plays in a ballpark that just crushes power to right field, where he hits the ball far more often than he pulls it.
    I don't have a line in the sand he must cross...I just expect/hope for better production. You certainly have a stronger scouting background than I, but that leads to many excuses. Now sometimes excuses are spot on, but sometimes it is just a player lacking ability. So I will patiently wait for better numbers.

  8. #20
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I don't have a line in the sand he must cross...I just expect/hope for better production. You certainly have a stronger scouting background than I, but that leads to many excuses. Now sometimes excuses are spot on, but sometimes it is just a player lacking ability. So I will patiently wait for better numbers.
    Rough thumb in the air numbers are fine.

    Again, I need to say : Going back to June 1st of last year, and excluding May of this year because it was very clear he was injured still and not right, he's hit .283/.341/.428 in 602 plate appearances, mostly at the Double-A level.

    So, does he need to improve the average? The OBP? The power? How much does he need to improve them on a rough thumb in the air scale?

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Rough thumb in the air numbers are fine.

    Again, I need to say : Going back to June 1st of last year, and excluding May of this year because it was very clear he was injured still and not right, he's hit .283/.341/.428 in 602 plate appearances, mostly at the Double-A level.

    So, does he need to improve the average? The OBP? The power? How much does he need to improve them on a rough thumb in the air scale?
    I would like to see an .800 OPS out of him over the course of a full season.* Something he has never done, including 86 games he played in hitter-happy Bakersfield. I don't think that's too much to ask for from a corner OF who is supposed to be considered a top prospect.


    Considering he has amassed a .674 OPS over 144 games in AA over the last two seasons, I would say that he's not all that close to that level.



    *With a minimum of 200 PA in a season
    Last edited by Benihana; 07-18-2014 at 03:50 PM.
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  10. #22
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I would like to see an .800 OPS out of him over the course of a full season.* Something he has never done. I don't think that's too much to ask for from a corner OF who is supposed to be considered a top prospect.



    *With a minimum of 200 PA in a season
    *center fielder*

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    *center fielder*
    He has played more minor league games as a corner OF in his career than he has as a CF. And that includes at his current level.

    That doesn't really equate to a future big league CF.
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  12. #24
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    He has played more minor league games as a corner OF in his career than he has as a CF. And that includes at his current level.

    That doesn't really equate to a future big league CF.
    He can play center field in the big leagues, therefore he should be given the prospect value of a center fielder. Playing the corner because Ryan LaMarre was in center last year doesn't make him a corner outfielder.

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Just to put it in perspective, re: Yorman Rodriguez, Jason Parks ranked him as a better prospect than Jesse Winker coming into the 2014 season. And some people were arguing that Winker should have been a Top 100 prospect coming into the season, and Parks thought Yorman was a better prospect than he was. A few Baseball America writers also had Yorman at the tail end of their Top 100 lists. And no, just in case someone doesn't understand what I'm trying to say here, I don't think Yorman Rodriguez is a better prospect than Winker is, I'm just making the point that in the scouting community, he gets a whole lot more respect than he seems to be getting around here.

    Yes, he's been around instructors quite a bit more than most guys have been. But still, 21 is 21. You can keep saying "after all these years", if you put him in Dayton right now you would be seeing a really good season from him and people would be stoked if they had a guy with his tools in Dayton and putting up good numbers at his age. But because he's been in the US since he was 16 and pushed aggressively when maybe he shouldn't have been at times, people haven't seen him have big sustained success and think he's not much of a player.

    Going back to June 1st of last year, and excluding May of this year because it was very clear he was injured still and not right, he's hit .283/.341/.428 in 602 plate appearances, mostly at the Double-A level. He's walking more and striking out less than he has in the past this season (sans May). His home ballpark isn't suited for how he hits at all (opposite field approach for a right hander in a park where there were all of NINE home runs hit to right field in 2013 by both teams in 70 games).

    Maybe I'm just completely nuts, but I think far too many people are sleeping on this kid because it feels like he is far older than he actually is.
    I think a lot of people's concerns about Yorman were validated by 72's concerns (and those of his trusted scouts). It doesn't mean people have given up on him or hope that he doesn't kill it, but that the body of work continues to grown and that he has not reached what everyone else had hoped for him by now.

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    He can play center field in the big leagues, therefore he should be given the prospect value of a center fielder. Playing the corner because Ryan LaMarre was in center last year doesn't make him a corner outfielder.
    I'm not talking about last year. I'm talking about his career. He's also not going to supplant Billy Hamilton, so if he's going to play anywhere in Cincinnati, it's going to be a corner spot.
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I think a lot of people's concerns about Yorman were validated by 72's concerns (and those of his trusted scouts). It doesn't mean people have given up on him or hope that he doesn't kill it, but that the body of work continues to grown and that he has not reached what everyone else had hoped for him by now.
    It should be noted that 72 acknowledged he hasn't seen Yorman in a while.

    Also, a lot of people that haven't seen much of Yorman since he was in Dayton are likely to view him very differently than people that have seen him in the last two years.

    Yorman went through personal, and perhaps emotional issues, while he was younger and going through Dayton the first time. There was a lot of really bad and negative things written about him at that time, and some people still hold that perception. A lot of people wrote Mesoraco off after he went through Dayton too.

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I'm not talking about last year. I'm talking about his career. He's also not going to supplant Billy Hamilton, so if he's going to play anywhere in Cincinnati, it's going to be a corner spot.
    But in the big picture, his prospect value, or his ability to play CF, aren't judged by what's in Cincinnati. If he can handle CF, then that's what will boost his prospect value, not where he would be on the Reds.

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  18. #29
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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I think a lot of people's concerns about Yorman were validated by 72's concerns (and those of his trusted scouts). It doesn't mean people have given up on him or hope that he doesn't kill it, but that the body of work continues to grown and that he has not reached what everyone else had hoped for him by now.
    72 admits he hasn't seen Yorman Rodriguez play in several years. The scouts he talks to don't cover the places where Yorman has played for the most part since leaving Dayton. I have nothing but respect for 72, but it really needs to be noted that he hasn't watched the guy play in several years.

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    Re: Baseball America's Reds Updated Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    But in the big picture, his prospect value, or his ability to play CF, aren't judged by what's in Cincinnati. If he can handle CF, then that's what will boost his prospect value, not where he would be on the Reds.
    That would normally be true. I'm just saying, I'm skeptical whether he has real value as a CF at the major league level - regardless of who is in the Cincinnati OF - because he has played more minor league games in the corner than he has in the middle. He hasn't been playing next to Ryan LaMarre at every level, so more often than not - someone has been a better CF than him on each minor league team. That doesn't bode well for his ability to be a true CF in the majors.

    In addition to LaMarre, some of these guys that started in CF regularly over Yorman at the various levels in his career include the great Jefry Sierra, Juan Silva, Theo Bowe, Bryson Smith, and the list goes on and on. You get the point.
    Last edited by Benihana; 07-18-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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