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Thread: I say... Sell at the deadline.

  1. #31
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Ballclub within two and a half games of the division in mid-July has an obligation to its fans to look for deals to help get into the playoffs this year.

    Team may need to sell off some salary this off-season, but not now. Now the objective should be to get in the playoffs and win.

    Reds should avoid making bad deals and destroying their farm, but they shouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger on a fair deal. Reds have excellent starting pitching which will be wasted if team doesn't fill holes or seek offensive upgrades.

    I'm surprised the Reds are this close, but since they are they must try (within reason) to make the playoffs. That's why they exist.

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  4. #32
    HS Athletic Director alexad's Avatar
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    If the Reds trade for a 1st baseman the Votto is hurt more than expected.
    Taylor High School
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  5. #33
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    With the way this team pitches, add in one or two of the relievers stepping up who have done it before (LeCure, Parro), this team is a 2nd wild card away from being a very serious threat to win it all.

    I used to want to add bats, now I want to add a 7th inning guy (or have one step up) and hunker down with pitching and defense.

    The Giants showed us all that if you can pitch, you can win it all, even with journeymen out on the field.
    Agreed, but didn't the Giants go out and get Pence at the deadline that year? They needed a bat. They got a bat.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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  7. #34
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    In theory I would not be averse to the Reds selling in July if they get crushed over the next ten days. I think the injuries to Votto, Phillips, and Cingrani and Bruce's down year (possibly still tied to his injury) will lead to their not being contenders at the end. That being said if the Reds could pick up a bat for first or left (with Ludwick shifting to first) it could keep them in it. I just don't see that happening in this market.

    So let's say the Reds were to sell, what could they move by position:
    1st- Votto- no chance anyone takes his contract unless he proves himself healthy which won't be this year. Plus the Reds have no one to slide into the position, as we have seen.
    2nd- Phillips being hurt makes him immovable until the offseason. Plus at that point the contract isn't too bad and there is no in house replacement near.
    SS- Cozart- he would draw some interest for teams in need of a good love SS who won't break the bank but his return would not justify moving him as there is no heir apparent.
    3rd- Frazier- he is an All-Star at a good cost so he would draw strong interest and a good return but who would play there next year?
    LF- neither Ludwick nor Heisey would generate much of a return.
    Cf- Hamilton would generate a nice return but no one is there to slot in plus Hamilton's track record is not long enough for some contenders. Reds would/ should not move him
    RF- Bruce- Bruce wold draw interest and a nice return. He having a down year but is a proven power bat which is a rare commodity. That said the Reds would then have. Huge hole to fill with no heir for next year.

    SP- this is where the Reds could sell. Unfortunately it looks like the Reds extended the wrong starter last season. With Cingrani hurt the options drop. There are no arms demanding to be ready for 2015. Hopefully Lorenzen, Stephenson, and Cingrani are pushing the door down by this time next year. For now Cueto and Latos would give a nice return but would leave a possible hole for next year. Simon could get a good return but less than the other two. If Bailey was pitching consistently his contract would not make his less marketable. leake's return would be around that of Simon. This is the one area where the Reds could move a guy and it not be a total white flag for 2015.
    RP- Chapman has value. See what Street brought back. All the other guys could be moved but the return would not be great as there are many relievers potentially to be had.

    So there it is. While some guys have value, the Reds would be too hamstrung by a move to compete next year with the exception of moving Leake or Simon and possibly Chapman. Bench pieces and relievers could also be moved but the returns would likely be inconsequential.

    That being said I hope the Reds do try to,get that bat and if the do move a SP it is to get a LF or a top flight middle infielder who is MLB close.

    Please excuse typos and wrong word fill ins- I hate typing on an IPAD and despise trying to make corrections one even more.
    Last edited by klw; 07-19-2014 at 07:51 PM.

  8. #35
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    In theory I would not be averse to the Reds selling in July if they get crushed over the next ten days. I think the injuries to Votto, Phillips, and Cingrani and Bruce's down year (possibly still tied to his injury) will lead to their not being contenders at the end. That being said if the Reds could pick up a bat for first or left (with Ludwick shifting to first) it could keep them in it. I just don't see that happening in this market.

    So let's say the Reds were to sell, what could they move by position:
    1st- Votto- no chance anyone takes his contract unless he proves himself healthy which won't be this year. Plus the Reds have no one to slide into the position, as we have seen.
    2nd- Phillips being hurt makes him immovable until the offseason. Plus at that point the contract isn't too bad and there is no in house replacement near.
    SS- Cozart- he would draw some interest for teams in need of a good love SS who won't break the bank but his return would not justify moving him as there is no heir apparent.
    3rd- Frazier- he is an All-Star at a good cost so he would draw strong interest and a good return but who would play there next year?
    LF- neither Ludwick nor Heisey would generate much of a return.
    Cf- Hamilton would generate a nice return but no one is there to slot in plus Hamilton's track record is not long enough for some contenders. Reds would/ should not move him
    RF- Bruce- Bruce wold draw interest and a nice return. He having a down year but is a proven power bat which is a rare commodity. That said the Reds would then have. Huge hole to fill with no heir for next year.

    SP- this is where the Reds could sell. Unfortunately it looks like the Reds extended the wrong starter last season. With Cingrani hurt the options drop. There are no arms demanding to be ready for 2015. Hopefully Lorenzen, Stephenson, and Cingrani are pushing the door down by this time next year. For now Cueto and Latos would give a nice return but would leave a possible hole for next year. Simon could get a good return but less than the other two. If Bailey was pitching consistently his contract would not make his less marketable. leake's return would be around that of Simon. This is the one area where the Reds could move a guy and it not be a total white flag for 2015.
    RP- Chapman has value. See what Street brought back. All the other guys could be moved but the return would not be great as there are many relievers potentially to be had.

    So there it is. While some guys have value, the Reds would be too hamstrung by a move to compete next year with the exception of moving Leake or Simon and possibly Chapman. Bench pieces and relievers could also be moved but the returns would likely be inconsequential.

    That being said I hope the Reds do try to,get that bat and if the do move a SP it is to get a LF or a top flight middle infielder who is MLB close.

    Please excuse typos and wrong word fill ins- I hate typing on an IPAD and despise trying to make corrections one even more.
    It's okay, I got a chuckle out of the "good love SS" line.

    I don't see the team selling at all, unless they tank the next 10 days, then maybe they would do something minor.

    But with the way the team fought back, I would be surprised if anyone in the front office was willing to sell.
    Last edited by PepperJack; 07-19-2014 at 08:08 PM.

  9. #36
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Sell, no. Redistribute resources, yes. If that's possible.

    Wouldn't mind seeing a challenge trade of prospects - one of our starters for someone else's (CUBS CUBS CUBS) middle infielder.

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  11. #37
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Quote Originally Posted by PepperJack View Post
    It's okay, I got a chuckle out of the "good love SS" line..
    Great, thanks to this typo I am picturing somebody photoshopping Cozart onto Costanza.
    Last edited by klw; 07-19-2014 at 09:08 PM.

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  13. #38
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    I think you prepare for both eventualities. You hope you'll be a buyer, but you also look at selling off some pieces if needed.

  14. #39
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Walt passed on him last year, but what about Marlon Byrd from the Phils this year for LF?

  15. #40
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    Agreed, but didn't the Giants go out and get Pence at the deadline that year? They needed a bat. They got a bat.
    Yes for 2012, but Pence wasn't there for the 2010 WS win.

  16. #41
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Reading about how Kemp wants to play everyday but Mattingly wants Petersen in CF, sounds like getting Kemp and installing him in LF could be doable. Shift Ludwick and his new glove over to first while Votto is out.

  17. #42
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    I say we wait until the deadline and see where we stand. It would make a difference to me if we were 1 game ahead vs. 7 below.

  18. #43
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Or Walt could have made a deal already that would help keep them from sliding. There is no rule you have to wait until the last minute to deal.

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  20. #44
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/2014/...ing-for-a-bat/

    Reds general manager Walt Jocketty has several of his inner-circle of baseball operations people on the road with him. Jocketty is eyeing some additions.

    “I’d like to add a bat,” Jocketty said on Sunday. “We just haven’t found anything that attracts us yet. It may not happen before the 31st.”

  21. #45
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    Re: I say... Sell at the deadline.

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Or Walt could have made a deal already that would help keep them from sliding. There is no rule you have to wait until the last minute to deal.
    The sellers can still ask their higher price right now, other than the Cubs and Padres, the sellers have given anything up yet.

    Zobrist is still a Ray, Willingham is still a Twin, and so on.


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