"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Crumbley (07-27-2014)
Agree in principle, but a lot of younger people are moving on. It could eventually impact the game when more and more young athletes in the country start focusing on soccer or basketball instead of baseball.
This is not trivial stuff, IMO. They must find ways to avoid games lasting more hours than total runs scored.
Rounding third and heading for home...
Old school 1983 (07-23-2014)
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
All of which are more fun than watching you try to argue subjectively, mister life of the party.
I'm obviously messing with you, I hope you know that. Still, I'm seriously bothered by the fact that someone who has obviously spent a ton of time learning the game like you (I mean that from the bottom of my heart, you can sometimes drop some genious level stuff on us) can't seem to grasp that this is just another trend that happens from time to time, like it or not. Do you now feel as though you've wasted a ton of your free time all of the sudden? I doubt it. So why not? why wasn't it waste of time if it's so boring to you?
Call me a Zealot, and I'll take that as a compliment. No doubt about that.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
I'm messing with you too.... But baseball can't survive the drought it's allowing itself to suffer and come out on the other side and be stronger.
Baseball has even killed an in season intrigue that all fan bases could be captivated by-the trade deadline- in it's arbitrary drive for maximum parity. It's like serving diluted whiskey or bland Mexican cuisine.
Last edited by jojo; 07-23-2014 at 08:49 PM.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I get what you're saying, but do you think it was killed by design?
I just think it's a normal variance. The game was awesome before 1993, ya know?
Wait a minute...I just realized you're alluding the extra wild card spot. That's definitely something I can agree with. It's made more teams think they've still got a shot. Yeah, I totally agree.
Last edited by wheels; 07-23-2014 at 08:59 PM.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Old school 1983 (07-23-2014)
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
They said the inverse in 1987, though. Things quickly bounced back to the norm in subsequent years. I just think it's typical cat and mouse stuff between pitchers and hitters. That, and we might be learning that expansion works both ways, it just took a few years for the talent pool to cycle towards the pitching end.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.
I am a hardcore fan. I thought the baseball of the first half of the 2000s was more fun to watch than baseball today, on average. Focusing on run environment misses the point. It wasn't the runs per se'. It was simply that there was more going on. Not just more runs, but more baserunnners who may or may not steal. More plays at the bases. And yes, more balls over the fence. It's funny, while hardcore people bemoaned steroid-ball as a joke, they never said "we need more strikeouts" or "we need more weak grounders to 2B". People did say they wanted fewer walks. Instead, we've mostly just traded singles for a whole bunch of strikeouts.
The vast majority of baseball is inaction; at least soccer has non-stop action (which can be more fully enjoyed once one appreciates the nuances of the sport). Excitement and enjoyment come from the full range of experiences the sport has to offer. Even in the height of the 90's, there was no shortage of tense batter-pitcher matchups. It was not hard to see a well-executed pitch leading to a strikeout or a batter working a walk. The strategy of baseball is largely overwrought, with rote correct answers to the most appropriate decision in most cases. I don't think it has to do with being hardcore enough to enjoy a low scoring game because not all low scoring games are created equal. Neither are all high scoring games.
I was born in 1982. Some interest comparisons arise between 1982 and 2013. In both years, teams averaged 8.6 runs per game (combined), just as they do now. But if we look at qualified batters and starting pitchers, we can see the game was quite different.
In short, despite the run scoring environment being the same, batters in 1982 put the ball in play much more often. Each ball in play did a little bit less damage in terms of power per ball in play, but the net output was similar. Once on base, those runners ran more, especially if we were to factor in caught stealing.Code:Batters Count PA AVG OBP SLG K% BB% HR BABIP SB 1982 140 613 .275 .340 .424 17.0 12.3 15.7 .292 14 2013 140 607 .272 .338 .435 24.7 11.8 17.8 .308 10 Pitchers Count IP ERA FIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP 1982 89 212 3.82 3.79 5.0 2.9 0.81 .277 2013 81 195 3.61 3.64 7.6 2.6 0.91 .289
To put a fine point on the strikeout issue: In 1982, just 6 of the 90 qualified SP had a K/9 above 7.0 (7%). Last year, it was 52 of 81 (64%) did. It may be interesting to some to learn that we have seen a huge boon in walks.
What has happened is quite simple. Today's batters hit the ball less often, but harder. No more runs are scoring and yet games take something like 30 minutes longer than they did 30 years ago. A soccer game takes 2 hours, during the vast majority of which the ball is in play. A baseball game routinely takes 3 or more hours, during the vast majority of which the ball is not in play.
Baseball has always been a game played at a leisurely pace. But never in its history has it had so little action outside of the batter-pitcher matchup and never has it taken so long to complete a game. That is a recipe for boredom. We can discuss/debate all of the factors at play, but today's game inevitably produces longer stretches of repetition and general inaction than ever before. Even the most hardcore among us gets a big thrill seeing bat hit ball.
If I had my druthers, I'd lower the mound, use technology to call the zone per the rule book and push all the fences back 10 feet to reward balls hit in to play and increase the value of speed. That would be a start. But I fear that our technology has produced a version of the sport that is likely to be skewed toward the defense for quite some time. And once teams start investing in real medical research to keep elite pitchers healthier, look out.
Last edited by RedsManRick; 07-23-2014 at 10:34 PM.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
*BaseClogger* (07-24-2014),IslandRed (07-24-2014),Rojo (07-24-2014)
It really wouldn't play out much different, just quicker. Think about it. Not much pitching/hitting strategy takes places until you get to 1-1. A pitcher gets two quick strikes on a hitter, and what happens next? A waste pitch. Every freaking time.
This would get rid of waste pitches. Every pitch would be important, making it much more interesting to watch. And the Chess match would still be there, it just would be more intense.
But it will never happen. Fans wouldn't be able to adjust to it quickly enough. But if the game started with this concept 100+ years ago, no one would think it was wrong or weird.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
Loved me the game on big field, with fast grass and tall walls. It moved, it wasn't grinding action to a halt, waiting for your pitch, station to station ball.
That said I'm ingesting my third game today and will watch the rest of another later.
So I'm adaptable, most humans are. If they understand that time is a real factor, not something you force either.
Thus I let the game adjust itself first
Last edited by westofyou; 07-23-2014 at 10:53 PM.
GullyFoyle (07-24-2014),IslandRed (07-24-2014),Old school 1983 (07-23-2014)
On a related note, the ESPN game tonight is 0-0 in the 9th inning. The game is 4 hours old (with a 59-minute rain delay).
This game 25 years ago would be 2 hours and change at the same point, without rain.
Rounding third and heading for home...
Crumbley (07-27-2014)
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