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Thread: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

  1. #1
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    Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    You think the Reds would have learned from the Ken Griffey, Jr. signing that putting all your budget into one ballplayer isn't going to win you a championship. There is so much money to go around with a budget that the Reds have to deal with and if you don't have a strong supporting cast, then it is hard to win.

    Now fast forward to today. The Reds signed Votto and Phillips to deals similar to Junior's and we are seeing the repeat of the Griffey's signing all over again. Not enough money to have a strong bench or money in the budget to take on payroll. Basically, they are stuck with these contracts and to compound it, both players are on the DL and their stats before they were injured wasn't nothing to get excited about.

    You would think they would take the Tampa Bay approach and move these guys and got young talent in return. Once you sign these players to longterm deals there is no incentive to put up the numbers because their contracts are guaranteed. Too bad they don't have the contracts like NFL players. I would rather eat the signing bonus instead of being stuck with some unwanted contracts the next 3+ years.

    So, I'm done ranting but you think the Reds would have learned from the Junior's signing.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    This is nothing like the Griffey signing. The Reds basically signed Griffey and said lead us all by yourself.

    The Reds signed Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Cueto and Bailey to long term deals. The Reds traded for Mat Latos. The Reds signed Aroldis Chapman.

    Apples and Grizzly Bears.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    "Don't let the fear of striking out hold you back."


    Reds have much more to spend on payroll than Tampa Bay and Oakland. You can bet Tampa and Oakland would sign some of their best players long term if they could afford to.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Yes the Reds have money, but I would rather operate differently. 225 M for one player is unacceptable. We could have had Abreu and Cespedes for 100 M. We would still have 125 M to spend on pitching. Didn't happen I know, but the Reds FO needs to sell, try and unload payroll and get younger players.

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    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    I think someone on the Reds angered Jobu.

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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Now fast forward to today. The Reds signed Votto and Phillips to deals similar to Junior's and we are seeing the repeat of the Griffey's signing all over again. Not enough money to have a strong bench or money in the budget to take on payroll. Basically, they are stuck with these contracts and to compound it, both players are on the DL and their stats before they were injured wasn't nothing to get excited about.
    Joey Votto is making 12M in 2014. Brandon Phillips is making 11M in 2014. Johnny Cueto & Jay Bruce are each making 10M in 2014.

    Not sure how Votto & Bruce's 2014 salaries are a repeat of Griffey's contract, but Bruce & Cueto's contracts, at 15% less, are not worth mentioning. Once Votto's contract ramps up to 20M, you may have a point.

    jvs

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame


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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by JMO View Post
    Yes the Reds have money, but I would rather operate differently. 225 M for one player is unacceptable. We could have had Abreu and Cespedes for 100 M. We would still have 125 M to spend on pitching. Didn't happen I know, but the Reds FO needs to sell, try and unload payroll and get younger players.
    It's very easy to pick out the best players, who will be insane bargains, a few years down the line. Figuring out who going to be Puig and who is going to be Matt Bush would be a great deal easier with a time machine.

    jvs

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    This is nothing like the Griffey signing. The Reds basically signed Griffey and said lead us all by yourself.

    The Reds signed Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Cueto and Bailey to long term deals. The Reds traded for Mat Latos. The Reds signed Aroldis Chapman.

    Apples and Grizzly Bears.
    YES, YES and YES. I'd ask to name some of those pitchers during the Griffey time, but I am currently without aspirin for the headache it would give me. I do remember Opening Day starters named Elmer Dessens, Jimmy Haynes, Corey Lidle and Paul Wilson. The cream of the crop (so to speak).
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by PTjvs View Post
    It's very easy to pick out the best players, who will be insane bargains, a few years down the line. Figuring out who going to be Puig and who is going to be Matt Bush would be a great deal easier with a time machine.

    jvs
    Yeah. Remember when the Reds signed Chapman? A majority of the quotes were that the Reds way overpaid for him.

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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yeah. Remember when the Reds signed Chapman? A majority of the quotes were that the Reds way overpaid for him.
    To be fair Doug, I think you would probably argue that the Reds ARE way overpaying him for the utility they are getting, since he is being used as closer.

    jvs

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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    You think the Reds would have learned from the Ken Griffey, Jr. signing that putting all your budget into one ballplayer isn't going to win you a championship. There is so much money to go around with a budget that the Reds have to deal with and if you don't have a strong supporting cast, then it is hard to win. Now fast forward to today. The Reds signed Votto and Phillips to deals similar to Junior's and we are seeing the repeat of the Griffey's signing all over again. Not enough money to have a strong bench or money in the budget to take on payroll. Basically, they are stuck with these contracts and to compound it, both players are on the DL and their stats before they were injured wasn't nothing to get excited about. You would think they would take the Tampa Bay approach and move these guys and got young talent in return. Once you sign these players to longterm deals there is no incentive to put up the numbers because their contracts are guaranteed. Too bad they don't have the contracts like NFL players. I would rather eat the signing bonus instead of being stuck with some unwanted contracts the next 3+ years. So, I'm done ranting but you think the Reds would have learned from the Junior's signing.
    I don't think lack of incentive has anything to do with it. There is no lack of effort. It is not a matter of trying harder. The reason the Reds are a .500 team is because they have suffered a lot of injuries combined with a lack of talent, not a lack of effort. I do agree with you that the Reds have overpaid for quite a few players and have signed them to unnecesarily long extensions. There has been a tendency to optimistically overreact to a player's career year and sign him to a long lucrative contract when it is highly unlikely he is going to maintain his career-year level of play moving forward. The contracts given to Votto, Phillips, Bailey, Ludwick, Marshall, Broxton, Hannahan, Cairo, and Arroyo were too long and too rich compared to any reasonable expectation of future performance. The Reds did not get any discount whatsoever for extending these contracts in advance (prior to the player reaching free agency). I would not say these contracts were flagrantly stupid, but the Reds did pay absolute top dollar.

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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Just another Thursday here at Redszone

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    "That ball is FAIR! Cincinnati's ahead 2 games to none!" - the last World Series game played in Cincinnati

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    I think someone on the Reds angered Jobu.
    Going to need a live chicken.
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Good point. There was no financial savings to the deals the Reds did for Votto and Phillips. And the jury is still out on the Bailey extension. IMO, he hasn't shown anything that would warrant an extension like he got.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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