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Thread: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

  1. #61
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    I know I'm not bringing much to this conversation, but I'm glad Joey Votto is going to retire a Red.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  4. #62
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    I know I'm not bringing much to this conversation, but I'm glad Joey Votto is going to retire a Red.
    Why?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  5. #63
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    I know I'm not bringing much to this conversation, but I'm glad Joey Votto is going to retire a Red.
    You're bringing plenty because people clearly still don't get it.

    There are two absolutes when it comes to Cincinnati Reds baseball

    1. Joey Votto is not getting traded.
    2. Aroldis Chapman will not be a SP.

    People can hate both of those things and disagree all day but those two things are not changing.

  6. #64
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Why?
    He's this generation's Barry Larkin. Home grown MVP who is one of the most talented players the franchise has ever seen. He does a lot for the community and is a face to be proud to have representing our Cincinnati Reds. I have no reason to not believe he'll be a consistent hitter well into his 30s, even with the injuries. May not be a 35-homer guy ever again, but there aren't a lot of them left in the game anyway.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  8. #65
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    He's this generation's Barry Larkin. Home grown MVP who is one of the most talented players the franchise has ever seen. He does a lot for the community and is a face to be proud to have representing our Cincinnati Reds. I have no reason to not believe he'll be a consistent hitter well into his 30s, even with the injuries. May not be a 35-homer guy ever again, but there aren't a lot of them left in the game anyway.
    I asked because there aren't that many players anymore that have a really good career and it's all with one team and it seems like some people don't want to accept that. Playoff appearances mean more. It should be fine if a good player has to be moved to better the team. But, some people would be upset with just the thought of trading Bruce no matter what the reason(s) are. (Votto, on the other hand, is safe. NO team is going to want that contract.)
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  9. #66
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    I asked because there aren't that many players anymore that have a really good career and it's all with one team and it seems like some people don't want to accept that. Playoff appearances mean more.
    This isn't an either/or. Joey Votto's contract isn't going to keep the Reds out of the playoffs. But you're right that a great player sticking around for an entire career doesn't happen much anymore, which makes it that much more special as a fan.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  10. #67
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    He's this generation's Barry Larkin. Home grown MVP who is one of the most talented players the franchise has ever seen. He does a lot for the community and is a face to be proud to have representing our Cincinnati Reds. I have no reason to not believe he'll be a consistent hitter well into his 30s, even with the injuries. May not be a 35-homer guy ever again, but there aren't a lot of them left in the game anyway.
    Doesn't approach having Larkin's leadership skills.
    All-Star Game hosts and World Series champs in 2015

  11. #68
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    It's hard to look back and blame Walt for singing arguably the best hitter in baseball in his prime to a deal.

    That Phillips contract doe. That's a bad one.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  13. #69
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    Doesn't approach having Larkin's leadership skills.
    Fine by me.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  14. #70
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Several folks mention the loaded roster and tons of talent on the team. It sure doesn't feel that way. Not even if all were healthy would I call this roster loaded and comparatively over talented to other NL contenders. Too many players with too many holes in their game on this team. It's an average team with a shot at greatness but only a shot. Now with all the injuries... A long shot.
    If Votto, Bruce, and Phillips were healthy and preforming at anywhere near their norms (and I'll even say if Phillips was just healthy right now and performing how he was all year), this team would be the best team in the NL, pretty easily.

    I think people are underestimating how hurt the Reds have been this year and how much it really hurts you.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  16. #71
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    If Votto, Bruce, and Phillips were healthy and preforming at anywhere near their norms (and I'll even say if Phillips was just healthy right now and performing how he was all year), this team would be the best team in the NL, pretty easily.

    I think people are underestimating how hurt the Reds have been this year and how much it really hurts you.
    How many times have seen this lineup this year?

    Hamilton
    Phillips
    Votto
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Mesoraco
    Ludwick
    Cozart

    Not often, but that's a damn good lineup and an even better defense and one of the best rotations in the game. Walt can blame himself all he wants for putting this team together and sleep well at night (or early evening). Injuries suck.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  18. #72
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    How many times have seen this lineup this year?

    Hamilton
    Phillips
    Votto
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Mesoraco
    Ludwick
    Cozart

    Not often, but that's a damn good lineup and an even better defense and one of the best rotations in the game. Walt can blame himself all he wants for putting this team together and sleep well at night (or early evening). Injuries suck.
    Somebody posted it the other day, think the number was 10.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  19. #73
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    It's hard to look back and blame Walt for singing arguably the best hitter in baseball in his prime to a deal.

    That Phillips contract doe. That's a bad one.
    Nothing wrong with paying market value for irreplaceable talent. If Votto regains his health and returns to form no one will sweat this, and the injuries were unforeseeable at the time of signing. The Reds would be very, very lucky to obtain a hitter of Votto's class through trade or development. You want to keep those guys.

    When you start giving big money and years to guys that are above average but not elite (Bailey, Phillips) or play positions subject to major variance and with readily available talent (Broxton, Marshall, any of the bench guys), that's when you get into trouble. And I think that's the problem here. A Ludwick deal here, a few million for Hannahan, a few more for Marshall, a few more Broxton, and all of a sudden you're talking about real money.

  20. #74
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    Nothing wrong with paying market value for irreplaceable talent. If Votto regains his health and returns to form no one will sweat this, and the injuries were unforeseeable at the time of signing. The Reds would be very, very lucky to obtain a hitter of Votto's class through trade or development. You want to keep those guys.

    When you start giving big money and years to guys that are above average but not elite (Bailey, Phillips) or play positions subject to major variance and with readily available talent (Broxton, Marshall, any of the bench guys), that's when you get into trouble. And I think that's the problem here. A Ludwick deal here, a few million for Hannahan, a few more for Marshall, a few more Broxton, and all of a sudden you're talking about real money.
    The Reds have run into some bad luck, though. The money Walt handed out to relievers, that's bad money no doubt. The Ludwick contract? You're talking about letting go of the 2nd best hitter on arguably the best team in the NL the year before. 2 years/15 for a guy coming off a huge year, but is older wasn't an insane deal. It was just unfortuante he blew up his shoulder less than a game into the contract. Now is injuries a concern with older players? Yes, but I don't think that was an unreasonable contract at all.

    The Bailey situation was another tough one. Every indication was that Bailey was due for a bust out year. He's been improving dramatically, so you either could choose to sign him before the year or let him pitch his way out of Cincinnati most likely. I really don't have a problem with Bailey's money still.

    Look, Walt's not a perfect GM but nobody is. Everybody wanting to run him out of town doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. This is a well constructed and a well run franchise right now. There's no need to blow it up due to a lack of postseasons success and some bad luck with injuries. Maybe it's because I was raised on the lost decade, but I have no problem with how this organization is being run or where it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  22. #75
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Have No One But Themselves To Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Somebody posted it the other day, think the number was 10.
    Actually, it was 12. (Eight of them were in April.)
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.


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